Can I use a bottle of water or seltzer as 1 of my 2 items?

boysrus

Wed, Feb 04 2015, 11:34 pm

One year I gave a bottle of seltzer as one of my two MM items. A friend called me later in the day and said that I should make sure to give at least one MM with 2 different items, becasuse she thought she had learned that water or seltzer could not count as one of the two items.
did anyone ever hear that?

I always aim to make a MM with only 2 items, and healthy items at that, and of course penny pinchingly frugal, so I was thinking to re-use the seltzer idea, but only if my friend was wrong.

Does anyone know if she was right? What should I do? TIA

chaos

Thu, Feb 05 2015, 3:52 am

I will not claim to be an expert, but no, I have not heard that water/seltzer cannot be used in mishloach manot. I have heard about giving items with two different brachot and I have heard about giving something which can be used at the seudah. I would think that as long as the second item in your mishloach manot is not shehakol, you are good.

On a separate note, I would be quite miffed if my friend called me to complain about the mishloach manot that I gave her, no matter how justified her complaint. How does she know I didn't learn differently, give a different MM basket with two non-water/seltzer items to someone else, thereby fulfilling the mitzvah even by her interpretation, or that perhaps I couldn't afford to give anything else? If it were me, I would not want to give her MM again.

mommy3b2c

Thu, Feb 05 2015, 6:45 am

chaos wrote:

You are wrong about the two brachos. That is just a common misconception.

srbmom

Thu, Feb 05 2015, 8:43 am

I have heard the same about water/seltzer not counting. I forgot to clarify with my LOR.
Even if this is the case, you can give a couple larger packages to someone else - your rav, kids teachers... and those can count as your "real" mitzvah and the others are more for show.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Feb 05 2015, 9:20 am

Water is not considered a "choshuv" item. It's not just about 2 items (and they can be the same bracha as long as they are different from one another), but they need to be choshuv and considered as something somewhat respectable. You cannot fulfill the mitzvah with a jelly bean and a nut, because that is not considered choshuv.

I am unsure if seltzer transforms the water into something choshuv. I can ask my husband later, but you should ask your LOR.

DrMom

Thu, Feb 05 2015, 10:35 am

Water seems pretty chashuv to me! It's one of the few items I would actually consume if I received it as part of MM.

But I am not very familiar with the halachot of this topic.

boysrus

Thu, Feb 05 2015, 11:18 am

Thank you all for the responses. Hashem Yaazor, please do ask your husband if he knows about this. Is he a posek or stam a knowledgeable talmid chacham?

Two brachos I have heard is a myth. No worries there.

chaos wrote:

On a separate note, I would be quite miffed if my friend called me to complain about the mishloach manot that I gave her, no matter how justified her complaint. How does she know I didn't learn differently, give a different MM basket with two non-water/seltzer items to someone else, thereby fulfilling the mitzvah even by her interpretation, or that perhaps I couldn't afford to give anything else? If it were me, I would not want to give her MM again.

Chaos, I did not take it in a negative way at all. I assume that she was worried that maybe I didnt know this and perhaps this was what I was giving for all of my MMs, and wanted to let me know to give one that didnt have water as one of its two things. I thought it was very thoughtful of her to let me know. and she did of course thank me for it!

Looking forward to HY's husband's response! Thanks all!

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Feb 05 2015, 11:55 am

He's not a posek for anyone outside our family, but if it's straightforward halacha, he can share it with others. I just asked him, and he said it's not so clear cut that water is not allowed, there may be differences of opinion, so he wouldn't even touch the seltzer question. I thought it was poshut that water is not allowed, but I guess that is just what our rav holds, and isn't necessarily what everyone holds (though it does seem to be a common view).....so you need to escalate this to your rav.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Feb 05 2015, 12:05 pm

Rav Eliyashiv (Ashrei Ha'Ish 311:5) says soda counts but seltzer does not count since it does not have a din of a drink. I am unclear if flavored seltzer is different.

Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky (Kovetz Halachos 17:9) considers seltzer to be like plain water which has no chashivus.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Feb 05 2015, 12:07 pm

boysrus wrote:

Thank you HY
maybe I should just give it anyway, and make sure to give at least one MM with different contents. what od you think?

I can't see a problem in that. (Unless there is a maaras ayin issue, but I don't know.)

goodmorning

Thu, Feb 05 2015, 12:19 pm

boysrus wrote:

Thank you HY
maybe I should just give it anyway, and make sure to give at least one MM with different contents. what od you think?

Out of curiosity, is seltzer so much cheaper or otherwise better for you than, say, mini grape juices? Because there is an idea of being "marbeh" in MM, and if you are giving multiple MM anyway, why not make them halachically acceptable/preferable MM for the same doing?

miami85

Thu, Feb 05 2015, 12:35 pm

Bottle of water I don't think counts, though I think that if you give "sparkling water" like pelligrino, voss, or in a glass bottle, or something a little bit more chashuv it can count. I know someone who did it one year.