Would you let the baby's grandfather be sandik if...

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5*Mom

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 10:08 am

amother wrote:

Am I really fooling myself to think that giving to him would be rising above it all?
That is the impression I am getting from everyone.
Eta: the impression I'm getting is that I am fooling myself.

Nobody has addressed this question.

I can understand everyone's reaction and I might even have the same reaction were I in the same situation, but no one can tell *you* that you are fooling yourself. Full stop.

You know what you think, you know what you feel. You know what your intentions would be. No one else.

I think most people are responding to the advice given to you by your rav. It doesn't sound like he is very familiar with abuse or with you. But that has no bearing on whether or not you should heed his advice. I think a good rule of thumb is this: If his advice speaks to you and makes you feel empowered, then by all means follow it! If it will make you feel victimized in any way, don't. Only you know how you will feel either way. You can trust your own instincts and be true to yourself in making this decision, regardless of what anyone else says they would or wouldn't do.

Mazal tov and lots of nachas!

FranticFrummie

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 10:27 am

5*Mom wrote:

THIS. Came here to say all of this.

saw50st8

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 11:14 am

OP,

Has he gone to therapy? Apologized? Offered to pay for your therapy?

If he has not, DO NOT give him anything. Protect yourself.

Laiya

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 11:17 am

5*Mom wrote:

I think the litmus test would be, if she can give the kibud happily.

But her post says, she feels sick when she looks at him. It sounds like her decision to give the kibud now would not be made out of true graciousness coming from emotional security, but unhealthy guilt.

5*Mom

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 11:51 am

Laiya wrote:

I don't think *happily* is the litmus test. Nor do I think she should do this out of graciousness. In one post OP says this:

lavender wrote:

On the other hand, overcoming one's self in such a strong way, just not to embarrass another human being in public, may make it all worth it. Maybe that zchus will be Stronger than any hashpua from that man.

I suffered a lot in my life, from this man. I think the only lesson I learned from him is to live for the world to come. It would actually be a befitting revenge!

I think the litmus test would be if she can give the kibud from a place of strength, not weakness. It really is all about OP: if giving the kibud will be good for her, will empower her and make her feel strong, she should give it. If not, she should not.

But no one can tell her how she will or should feel. Only OP can know that.

Laiya

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 12:09 pm

5*Mom wrote:

I wrote, coming from a place of emotional security. I think she has to be in that place FIRST.

If she isn't, I don't see how giving the kibud (or even allowing him to come to the bris) will make her feel "empowered".

5*Mom

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 12:30 pm

Laiya wrote:

I don't see how giving the kibud (or even allowing him to come to the bris) will make her feel "empowered".

That's exactly my point: You don't have to see it. Only OP does.

amother

Lavender

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 12:32 pm

Usually I don't like when people discuss me, or my feelings. This discussion is really helping me though.
For that I thank you all from the bottom of my heart. I appreciate how much you care. It comes through in each post,

sitting

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 1:45 pm

im sorry your in this position. I definitely would not let him.
this is not a minor thing. his abuse affected you for years. a tsandik is remembered for yours and in my opinion has a connection to the child.always.
looking after your emotional health comes before any rewards.

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 2:00 pm

I'm sorry you're in this situation. My husband and I debated letting his father be sandek because he is abusive and we don't want our son to be eternally connected to him. We asked a rav who said we should allow it, against my wishes. I still regret it. He ruined our bris.

ginevraweasley

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 2:32 pm

OP, your rabbi intentionally gave you an "out" by saying that it would be meritorious but is not mandatory. Take this "out" and don't look back.

In my view, an emotional abuser doesn't deserve trust or kavod, both of which you would be conferring on him by making him sandek.

chavs

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 2:52 pm

I once asked a Rov what my obligations to my father is and he told me that I don't have any, that a father has to act like a father to get the necessary kovod.
I don't see my dad, don't call him and have no intention to.
When my son (12 months now) had his bris I found it really difficult handing him over for the bris, and this was to loving safe ppl, I can't imagine not risking my mental health and completely traumatising myself was I to gd forbid hand him over to my father. My kids have never seen him and I have no intention for them ever to see him and I certainly wouldn't hand over my precious baby to him.

If you think you'll be OK doing it fine, but if you feel that it would risk your health or type baby's for that matter, or make a difficult day even more difficult than listen to your gut and don't do it.
His feelings are not your responsibility.
I'm posting under my sn as I feel this is really important.

Imogen

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 4:02 pm

Mazel tov on your new baby.

Op you are no longer just a daughter or a wife, you are a mother, your duty is above all else to your new little neshama of a baby boy whom you are there to love and protect. That baby is yours, and you are his, his mother.

Your well being and peace of mind are paramount, listen to your gut feeling. No one else matters, you are the most important person here, a grand gesture is good for the stage, but not for real life, how it looks is never as important as how it is . All of us older mothers remember our babies brissim, the emotions, the pride, the joy and the need to surround our new little morsel with ayin tovim, wishing you joy, brachot and nachas from your little one.x,

israelgirl

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 5:49 pm

I will be honest and say, yes, I would give him the honor of sandek.

penguin

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 5:58 pm

Quote:

Has he gone to therapy? Apologized? Offered to pay for your therapy?

This is what I was going to ask. OP has said she gets sick to her stomach, so one would think the father has not made much attempt at healing, but perhaps he has & OP is still suffering anyhow.

If the answers to the above are NO then no way would I agree.

I also want to ask the previous poster, israelgirl, who said,

Quote:

I will be honest and say, yes, I would give him the honor of sandek.

- whether she has any experience with abuse.

Those of us who don't, but think we can empathize, may have something to contribute, but something tells me that those who have no experience are really not in a position to say they would.

amother

Lavender

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 7:00 pm

israelgirl wrote:

I will be honest and say, yes, I would give him the honor of sandek.

Why? Can you elaborate? What would be your reason for giving it to him?

Ashrei

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 10:43 pm

I can't advise either way. I'm not too crazy about the man who raised me but the issue of sandek never came up - he has no idea what it even means.

My first suggestion is to find another Rav and make sure it's not an obvious thing not to do it....

But I have been in very difficult situations where I can only cry to Hashem. So I'll write to you something like what a friend of mine does for me sometimes, and I use it to talk to Hashem. In case you go through with giving him sandek...

"Thank you Hashem, I know that AINO DE MILVADO, and this too is part of your plan. So I cannot worry or fear I must trust you. Just please give me the emuna I need as a free gift, in your infinite mercy, to truly internalize this, as it is so difficult for me. Strengthen me Hashem to always be able to thank you, knowing that you love our dear son, and you are overseeing every detail of his life, including who his Sandek is. What we do here is for no reason other than the glory of your holy Torah, so that we not embarrass another person, and do the mitzva of kibud av. And by going so far beyond myself, and doing it with a smile, may you shine your holy countenance on my family and my son, and bentch us with an abundance of open bracha, with simcha, and always shower my son in your unwavering protection. My you fill my son's neshama with your holy white light and may it be as though it is your holy Shechina holding my tinuk right now, and only the essence of open goodness is surrounding him. Thank you, thank you Hashem."

Feel confident in whatever you do decide. Hashem only wants us to be happy, especially at times like this. Baruch Hashem, you have a beautiful healthy little tzaddik there. We also have problems where it's really in the context of great bracha. The problems overshadow the bracha because we tend towards the negative. But when I focus on the bracha, it helps relax me. Hashem is helping and I'm sure He's proud of you no matter what you do.

amother

Jade

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 10:53 pm

Why on earth would you want a sinner to be any part of your mitzva toward your newborn?! I don't care who he is, what he dresses like, what yichus he has, etc.

I've made this mistake and lived to regret it.

You wouldn't ask us if you didn't have reservations. Follow your instinct. You cannot change the past, but the future and the future of your baby you hold in your very hands.

israelgirl

Wed, Sep 09 2015, 1:06 am

Feel free to PM me, I don't want to say my reasoning on this forum under my SN.

Hope Hashem guides you in making this very very difficult decision.

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