Why should we be honest?

amother

Mistyrose

Mon, May 30 2016, 1:56 pm

My husband tutors at night and no we do not report it. For all those who want to attack me now let me ask you a question. When you file your taxes there is a question "did you buy any purchases online or out of state and did not pay sales tax" how did you answer that question? the world would be a much nicer place and people would be much happier if everyone worried only about themselves and how they spent their money.

The Happy Wife

Mon, May 30 2016, 2:01 pm

amother wrote:

You're not required to pay sales tax when you buy something online that does not have locations in your state. And if you go out of state you pay sales tax in the other state if it is required. This is not illegal or fraudulent.

ETA: At least that is the law where I live. Maybe it varies by state.

Hashem_Yaazor

Mon, May 30 2016, 2:45 pm

It does vary by stae.

And we do report every source of income, even paid by check/cash, not because we're self-righteous, but because why wouldn't we?

As to the OP, why should you be honest? For your own sake, and your children's sake. Emes being a fundamental midda, you will receive benefits far more worth its weight in gold than some governmental breaks.

NotInNJMommy

Mon, May 30 2016, 3:50 pm

Doing things legally and working to the extent one can is a good idea both because it's keeping the law of the land and choosing to earn money (with Hashem's help) in as respectable way as possible. Taking handouts is "bread of shame" even if it's necessary and legal. (And I have been on benefits when I needed it, so I don't judge anyone for taking legally what they can, but it is still a handout vs. earning a living.) Hiding cash income that is legally supposed to be declared, whether or not in order to take benefits, is illegal.

I also work full time and pay my own benefits and don't qualify for any help--even though that isn't saying much. To follow the rules and to do one's hishtadlus even when others might not be is putting my trust in Hashem and truly keeping in mind Hashgachah Pratis and that Hashem can and will provide. If I feel the need to do things illegally to get ahead, then I don't trust Hashem. (At least that's what I tell myself when I'm frustrated....)

Again this is what I tell myself to keep my chin up, NOT what I think to myself about others in order to judge them...

miami85

Mon, May 30 2016, 4:08 pm

marina wrote:

The system does have a transition - you get less benefits if you earn a certain amount, it doesn't go from all to nothing.

And many programs require you to apply for work or take classes or attend training sessions to continue to qualify for support.

The people implementing these programs are not idiots. But there will always be flaws and ways people get around it and situations where people are stuck. There is no perfect solution.

Not quite when it comes to Medicaid--which these days is a HUGE benefit. We went from way below to slightly above in the same year, but because they look at "current earnings" we dont' qualify (even though the yearly average would likely still qualify) we went from not paying for insurance and no copays to now we have to pay close to $500/ month towards our family insurance and copays + deductible.

When you have a stay-at-home-parent as many families do, you aren't paying childcare costs, when you have one income and one in kollel, you need to pay childcare costs which adds up very quickly especially when you have more than one child.

If you have an income that basically covers your simple needs with govt programs, as a "short term measure" I.e. less than 10 years--it allows you to build your spiritual nest-egg l'olam haba--which is what we're all working for, no?

It's not really "not living up to your intellectual potential" to be learning b/c that's a mitzvah. Yes supporting your family is too, but if it can be met with a balance of legal earnings and work--ma tov u'ma na'im?

If people are cutting corners to make it work and not doing so in a not-so-ehrlech way--then they will answer for it when they thought they'd be "living the after-life"

amother

Peach

Mon, May 30 2016, 4:58 pm

Sry, but only paying 500 a month for a family's healthcare IS a gradual weaning off medicaid. Its only a lot to you because you've had your insurance covered until now. I'm in the exact same situation as you. Nearly regret my husband's raise because it took the adults in the family completely off medicaid and put the kids on a worse plan. But I don't because I don't want to be on govt programs forever and the only way out, unless someone becomes an overnight millionaire, is to take a loss in the beginning.

Yes it's a flawed system in which youre almost being penalized for making more money .

I believe it would be a lot better if only the truly disabled and maybe also the struggling single moms would be on most of these programs. Unemployment is its own program and is temporary as it should be. But like other posters said, why should we be paying for those who are physically fit and choose not to work?

amother

Seafoam

Mon, May 30 2016, 5:08 pm

op - I'm so confused.

What are you stealing if you don't report cash income?

Would you not qualify for a govt program because of that money? Do you mean that taxes are owed on that money? Does tax evasion make you a thief? According to your logic, people who don't want a raise to avoid entering the next tax bracket are also thieves.

Don't get me wrong tax evasion is a really bad idea. I've just never heard of it described as stealing.

Legal and illegal isn't always the same as right and wrong.

In non communist/socialist countries, obligating a person to work is considered a theoretical form of slavery. (that's why the FBI couldn't force Apple to let them into that terrorists phone) Choosing not to work is not stealing. By any definition. Choosing to learn Torah with your G-d Given talents has zero to do with the rest of your discussion.

but honestly, I wouldn't report small cash side jobs, its too much trouble. If they put me over an income limit for a program, that would be a different story. Hopefully:)

flowerpower

Mon, May 30 2016, 5:36 pm

Our system is messed up. I always say that they make you not want to work. If you start earning a little money you get punished by losing everthing. They reward you for not working by giving you everything. Maybe much less people will suddenly need welfare and what not if they change the system. I am talking about the general population.

amother

Rose

Mon, May 30 2016, 6:03 pm

marina wrote:

I have helped people get on programs via my job but at least where I live there is a strict cutoff. It's a % of the federal poverty guidelines... You are either off or on it. And if you qualify for Medicaid, you get so much more automatically...

MagentaYenta

Mon, May 30 2016, 8:09 pm

LittleDucky wrote:

This is a major issue with the way welfare is handled in our country. There should be a sliding scale system that encourages people to go out to work. Not this sudden drop off once you make $1 too much.
The programs should encourage self sufficiency- not dependency which is the state many are in. If you can work, one should work. Not just take from others. Because the government doesn't make money- anything people get in benefits is coming from your neighbors and fellow citizens.

That was all part of welfare reform. Some states chose to have a sliding scale based on earned income. Some states took the harsher solution. It was not the feds that chose this for the individuals of your state, but your state level government. They made the decision on how to implement welfare reform.