Brooklyn law school

amother

Slategray

Tue, Dec 13 2016, 10:20 am

amother wrote:

Probably. But you should not go to Brooklyn Law School. It is very expensive and you are highly unlikely to get a job that justifies the cost. And if you do get such a job, you will be working at it fourteen hours a day.

How nice of you to crush OP's dreams with one sentence. Why? I am sure OP is aware of the high cost of a J.D. and tuition in NY. How nice of you to tell her unequivocally that she will not get a financially-worthwhile job afterwards as well. This site really is a killjoy sometimes.

OP, hatzlacha with your legal endeavors.

Signed, someone who has a J.D. from a school that cost way more than BLS and doesn't regret it one little bit.

amother

Red

Tue, Dec 13 2016, 10:40 am

amother wrote:

You need to consider the statistics.

BLS had 336 graduates in 2015. Ten months post-graduation, 215 were employed in full time positions that required a law degree, so a little south of 2/3. Of those, only 61 were employed in law firms with 50 or more employees, which is where the real money is. 18%. Another 70 were in small firms. So less than 40% were in any type of law firm. 15 were in clerkships.

I'm a bit surprised that so many are in big firms. Most of the big firms I know won't interview out of BLS. I do know one BLS graduate employed in big law (Class of 2015, in fact), but he was top 5 of his class.

In contrast, of 413 Columbia graduates, 360 were employed in full time positions requiring a law degree, with 305 in firms of 50 or more. 401 were employed full time.

So while it would be lovely to encourage OP, the fact is that Brooklyn Law School, under current economic circumstances, its a gamble.

If OP is really interested in law school, she should go to the best one she can get into, take the loans, and just do it. It makes a difference.

Amarante

Tue, Dec 13 2016, 10:46 am

amother wrote:

Red amother's analysis is correct. No one is saying that someone should give up a passionate dream to become a lawyer. However, they should enter into it with their eyes wide up in terms of the realities of the current job market.

The study that Red Amother posted actually understates problems of employability that those who graduate from less than top tier law schools experience. The school wants to present the best statistics possible so it massages the data. For example, MANY law school graduates are theoretically employed full time at jobs requiring legal degrees but they are doing the soul deadening work of being contract employees for large cases. They make very little per hour and the work is stultifying and the conditions are terrible. It has very little to do with actual legal work as any monkey could do it but has to do with the economics of law firm practice. Even some of that work is being handled off shore by Indian lawyers for less than the peanuts they pay US lawyers.

amother

Red

Tue, Dec 13 2016, 11:27 am

doctorima wrote:

Very interesting numbers - where can you find these statistics for various law schools?

The ABA requires that the statistics be published, so google.

As Amarante said, though, a lot of those jobs are document review. Also, the lower the tier of law school, the more likely that the position is not partnership track.

And the difference doesn't necessarily fade over the years. The name of my top 5 law firm continues to open doors for me many years after graduation, that a lower-tier law school simply won't.

Don't get me wrong. Big law isn't for everyone. I hated every moment of my time there. I'm much happier at a small firm, even if my salary is commensurately smaller. But even smaller firms are looking for graduates of top tier schools, and people who left large law for a different type of practice.

amother

Aquamarine

Tue, Dec 13 2016, 11:28 am

Amarante wrote:

It's very difficult. My friend's daughter graduated from a decent but not top law school and did okay. She is very personable. It took her three years to find one job at a small law firm and she networked extensively and her father is an attorney so had contacts in the field.

Setting up a shingle is easier said than done for a variety of reasons including that most law school graduates really aren't fit to actually practice law on their own and the first years after graduation from law school should be done under the guidance of an experienced attorney so that one learns how to actually lawyer in whatever field one is actually practicing in.

I agree that one should probably first work for a small firm or solo before putting out their shingle, for at least a year, depending on the area of law. But if your goal is to find a job with a small or very small firm, that's a lot easier than only looking to work at a large firm.

amother

Slategray

Tue, Dec 13 2016, 11:30 am

amother wrote:

It's not crushing anyone's dreams to be realistic. Op is welcome to ignore and take her chances. We're just stating reality. Nowhere does op indicate that this is her dream. If it is, she should pursue it. If being a lawyer is truly your dream, you should go for it. If being a lawyer is what you think will make you the most money, you need to rethink that premise.

Yes, but the OP merely asked a factual question about whether or not her UG degree would be accepted by BLS. OP IMHO could have checked this on the BLS website vs asking random imamothers but she asked here. Most people with a clue these days are aware that the legal world is not generally paved with gold.... OP did not ask for a healthy dose of realism. If she had, I could have given her some and then some, but I do believe in answering the question posed by OP. Just the facts ma'am...

amother

Slategray

Tue, Dec 13 2016, 11:33 am

amother wrote:

So while it would be lovely to encourage OP, the fact is that Brooklyn Law School, under current economic circumstances, its a gamble.

If OP is really interested in law school, she should go to the best one she can get into, take the loans, and just do it. It makes a difference.

I agree 100% but OP did not ask us whether we thought BLS was a good choice in the current economic climate or if she should consider another less expensive law school. OP asked us a specific question about a particular UG course and IMHO, our job here is to answer her question or direct her to research it herself. OP did not ask for other information in her initial question.

amother

Aquamarine

Tue, Dec 13 2016, 11:49 am

amother wrote:

Again, this is still all assuming that your ultimate goal is to work for a large law firm. If that is not your goal, the field is open much wider.

And while it may be true that the ceiling of your earning potential will be highest at a large law firm--if you become partner one day, I guess--it's also possible to earn decent money as a solo or in other ways.

The payoff of course is quality of life. When you work for yourself you set your own hours, reject clients you aren't interested in, come and go as you please.

Some examples of areas of law that solos can do very nicely in are landlord tenant law, bankruptcies, elder law (which relies heavily on Medicaid planning and qualifications), infant compromises and probates related to wrongful death lawsuits (ie, personal injury lawyers will higher another law firm to prepare the probate-related applications and compromises).

Judges also assign cases to lawyers who are on the rosters, and then your fee is paid out of the estate (whether probate estate, guardianship estate, etc.)

Iow, these are not the type of clients who have money to burn, but you can still make a very nice parnassa in volume. I have friends who do well in each of those areas.

Other examples are immigration lawyers, petty criminal defense matters, and even traffic court.

Local governments have a need for in house lawyers (child services, adult protective services, housing dept, etc), and while the pay will be lower they supposedly have excellent benefits and job security.

I have two lawyer friends who work for financial institutions, never litigating.

There are other niche areas in which your clients may be other attorneys or institutions; these areas may include drafting appellate briefs, advising companies on ERISA matters, and more.

amother

Indigo

Tue, Dec 13 2016, 12:15 pm

I went to BLS. Got a scholarship that I maintained that paid for most of my education so graduated with minimal loans. I kept my scholarship and enjoy what I'm doing.
By the time I left, I heard scholarships were even easier to maintain (when I was there, it was top 30 percent of class- by the time I left it was top fifty or seventy- I forgot). Honestly, law is a competitive field so if someone can't stay at the top thirty to fifty percent of BLS, maybe it's not an ideal field for that person.
With respect to what Red said, I agree generally other than one thing: Do not just take out loans for the best school you can get into unless that best school is Harvard, Yale, Columbia, or one of the top five. That was advice that I got before going in and I'm so happy I got it and took it.
Between, for example, Cardozo, Fordham, BLS, and St John's, yes, some of those are clearly ranked higher then others- I'm not disputing that. But in the job market, Fordham is not going to compete with the Yales and Harvards, so if you get a job after graduating from Fordham, you're not getting it based on school name alone. You're relying on networking, alum, etc., and all of that is something you'll have if you go to any of the middle tier schools. IMO, it's really not worth it to take out significant loans unless you're in a top five MAYBE top ten school.
The key to getting a job outside of that? Networking- but not just at social events. Join legal societies that cater to the field you want to go into and do pro bono work there/intern there. That's how you pad your resume, and meet people who can ultimately hire you.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Apr 23 2017, 2:29 am

amother wrote:

But if the choice was a full scholarship at say BU or paying for Harvard would u say it's worth the price?

amother

Indigo

Sun, Apr 23 2017, 2:42 am

amother wrote:

But if the choice was a full scholarship at say BU or paying for Harvard would u say it's worth the price?

That's really something only you can answer. Odds are, from what I understand (but haven't researched extensively) that if you graduate from Harvard Law you will be employed. If you know what kind of law you want to go into, know the hiring rate from Harvard Law, know what firm(s) you would want to work at, do the math. Look at your loans, see how much an Associate who gets hired right out of law school would make, see how long it would take to pay back. Are you okay with that? Many people would be and that's what they do.
Obviously Harvard is a great law school, this world needs great female attorneys, you'll probably feel good about yourself. If everything else checks out, why not?

On the other hand, if you're not really sure what kind of law you want to go into, aren't excited about the idea of practicing at a money-making firm (like want to do more public interest), do you want to go into debt to do that...that's something you need to figure out for yourself.