High schoolers talking

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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PinkFridge

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 9:06 am

amother wrote:

I graduated high school 20 years ago, but I remember talking in class. It was the norm. I'm sure it drove teachers crazy. Usually if a teacher looked at you, it was enough to make you self conscious and whoever was talking would stop and pass notes instead. The only classes we didn't talk or play tic-tac-toe or hangman were classes that were actually interesting. One teacher deducted points for talking. It didn't help. Another teacher made us write:
"Although I am already a senior at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, and it does not behoove a woman of my status to be subjected to such a cruel and unusual punishment, hopefully, by writing this sentence twenty five times, I will learn to keep my mouth shut in class henceforth."
As I'm sure you can imagine, it didn't work. All I could suggest is constantly asking questions to the people who keep talking. This way, they are at least talking about what you are teaching about. I paid most attention by teachers who would constantly ask questions since I didn't want to be caught unprepared.

While there's nothing in this post that would dissuade me from sending my daughter there, if apropos, can I suggest to the poster that she edit her post, and that we NOT use names from now on?
Because I think using names is reportable. Especially by an amother, vs. a poster who might have already let people know where she went to school under her sn.

amother

Pumpkin

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 9:49 am

Please study up on Skinner and his methods.
I've taught in some tough schools.
Schools with security guards and isolation rooms in each classroom.
It works if it's done properly.

amother

Indigo

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 9:58 am

This is what I do to combat "talkers":

1) Keep your lesson moving. Teach at a clipped pace. Notice I didn't say fast. There's that fine line between going too fast that they can't keep up so you lose them and between going too slowly and you lose the bright girls.
I also throw out interesting anecdotes, real-life application of the information, random funny comments. This keeps them on their toes.

2) I agree with trixx if talking is related to my subject matter, it actually enhances the learning experience. But if it's clearly unrelated, then at first offense, I just look at the girl. I sometimes teach the whole class while continuing to stare at just one girl. It usually discomfits them. I also walk around the classroom while teaching and I have no problem parking myself close to a girl who's talking. I like these two methods because they don't interrupt the flow of the lesson.

During quiet work especially, I walk up and down the rows and stay put near the talkers. I will also simply look at the girl and shake my head.

3) If it continues, I stop teaching and sternly look at the girl. Wait, not more than 5 seconds.

4) The next time I give a warning, usually one which involves her being sent out. "This is the second (/third) time I'm stopping for you. Once more and you're out." The key is to keep it short, but be very clear. Usually this shapes up the girl enough at least until the end of that period.

5) If she STILL does not shut up, I follow through: "Chany, you are still disturbing. Please leave the classroom, and do not come back in until you've spoken to Mrs. Principal." My principal will not send the girl back into class until she's spoken to me.

6) If the girl did get quiet for the rest of the period, I call her over once the lesson is over. I analyze the specific girl who's talking.
- If she's bright K'ah and she's talking out of boredom, I tell her very openly, "You have a great head k"ah, and you add a lot to the lessons. I can see that while I'm still explaining things, you already got the idea, so I can imagine that you feel bored quite a bit of the time. Honestly, I have no problem if you take out something else quietly to do - as long as you keep up with your work, which I'm sure won't be a problem for you. But, (stern expression here) talking is not ok; it's just not acceptable. There will be consequences for talking."

- If she's a really weak girl, she's probably also talking out of boredom, and the solution is to get her additional tutoring/remedial help in the subject matter.

- An average girl who is an excessive talker will usually have her work suffering because of her extra-curricular activities, and that's the part that I focus on when talking to her. "You were doing great work in the beginning of the year. I imagine it wasn't easy, but you put in that effort, and I was really impressed. Lately, though, you're not so focused in class any more. The talking and being busy with other girls is making you not follow along. (Be specific with the girl - whether it's less participation, lower grades, blase attitude, etc.) It's a pity to let the year pass like this. You can do so much better. And I'm here to help you! But, (stern expression here) talking is never ok; it's just not acceptable. There will be consequences for talking."

I wish you much hatzlacha!

BasMelech120

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 10:11 am

If it's one girl who continues talking after you've asked the students not to, perhaps ask her to meet you before after class, and talk to her.
This might be a cry for help.
She may be going through something horrible at home, and maybe really just needs to 'talk' - not just to her classmates, but to someone who is willing to 'listen' and to help her if need be.

Signed,

The Girl Who Used To Talk Because She Needed Someone To Listen

cbg

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 1:26 pm

What subject do you teach?
Do you ever let girls teach class?
Perhaps she needs to see how hard it is.

I had a teacher in high school who would punish the entire class if one person misbehaved. Everyone behaved. Yes, it's not fair, but it put so much pressure on the girl that she stopped

amother

Ginger

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 3:03 pm

amother wrote:

Op here. Thank you! I found this very helpful!

LovesHashem

Sat, Dec 09 2017, 11:21 am

amother wrote:

Please study up on Skinner and his methods.
I've taught in some tough schools.
Schools with security guards and isolation rooms in each classroom.
It works if it's done properly.

Please explain to me what you were offering to these types of kids?
Drugs?
Alcohol?

I'm confused.
There are high schoolers that messed up that would shut up for a piece of candy?!

imasoftov

Sat, Dec 09 2017, 12:31 pm

amother wrote:

Please study up on Skinner and his methods.

About the person who inspired Seymour's last name, "the pigeons in B.F. Skinner's cages are political prisoners" - Robert Anton Wilson and Robert Shea

amother

Red

Sat, Dec 09 2017, 1:54 pm

Once in highschool, when the talking got out of hand, the teacher said to one of the girls - ok, I'm swapping places with you - come up and teach. He gave the girl his textbook and notes, then sat down in her desk and did the things the rest of the girls do - passed notes, talked to the girls next to him, took out a snack, etc. The girl teaching got the message, and so did the rest of the class because even though we normally ignored some talking and note-passing, we all noticed when he did it. I think students really don't notice just how noticeable or audible what they're doing is from the front of the room. We all behaved fantastically in his class after that.

Another time, talking got out of hand, and a teacher stopped the lesson, she said that it was clear we were having trouble paying attention, told to us to put our heads on the desk, turned out the lights, and told us a fairy tale! We improved after that too.

One teacher I know used to whisper everytime there was too much talking. I don't know if this would work for every teacher, but within a minute or two of the whispering, everyone was quiet. this worked for 2 reasons, one was that it got our attention, and 2 was that it usually made the talking girl's conversation audible and public to everyone who could now hear it clearly.

Lastly, a teacher I had had a 3 strike system for misbehaving in general. She had a book with each girl's name (I've known teachers who do this on the board, but I think that's a little shameful), and if you misbehaved once (talking , note passing, eating, disrupting, calling out, etc), she tapped the corner of that girl's desk and gently said 'strike 1' and wrote a mark next to her name in the book. Same for strike 2. If you got 3 strikes, you got extra homework. We were amazingly well-behaved all year. You could probably substitue points, etc.

Lastly, one teacher we had would send one of us into the hall if she repeatedly had to ask us to be quiet more than a few times. Again, a little shameful, but it worked.

amother

Azure

Sat, Dec 09 2017, 5:33 pm

amother wrote:

BH no overt chutzpah, but if a girl keeps talking after I've told her to stop, isn't that chutzpadig?

When you "tell her to stop" you are esentially ordering her around. You may disagree with my language. Be that as it may, there are teenagers who have a trigger to being told what to do. When you "tell her what to do" she has two options at her disposal: submit or rebel. Seems in the situation you mention here the teen is rebeling. Neither of these options leave the teen with choice. Whether she submits or rebels, she's not a free agent. You may disagree with me.
There is a third option, which is, to engage her in a collaborative conversation to solve your problem. Treat her with the dignity and respect your inner teen would have appreciated.
When the wind blows fiercely I pull my coat closer to my body. When the sun shines with her yummy warmth I loosen the grip on my coat.
Be like the sun, not like the wind.

amother

Pumpkin

Sat, Dec 09 2017, 6:31 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Please explain to me what you were offering to these types of kids?
Drugs?
Alcohol?

I'm confused.
There are high schoolers that messed up that would shut up for a piece of candy?!

It was more than just the candy.
It was the recognition that they can do something right and someone was acknowledging it.
Sure they called me grandma, and it wasn't easy, it took a lot of hard work, but by January they all knew as soon as they came in they took out their workbooks and got to work.
That piece of candy meant someone cared if they made it or not.

amother

Indigo

Sat, Dec 09 2017, 8:26 pm

amother wrote:

Op here. Thank you! I found this very helpful!

You're welcome! I am teaching BH for 14 years now (Wow! Makes me feel old...) and I struggled plenty my first 3 years. I alternated between letting too much go and then clamping down too hard.

I wish someone would have outlined the above for me, so I'm glad to share what I learned through quite a number of years of (trial and error) experience.

One more point I want to add is that chronic talking can sometimes be a culture in the school. An individual teacher can still combat it in her own classroom, but it'll be that much harder. (BTDT) It's important to get to know the culture and attitude in your school to know what level of discipline is reasonable to expect. Speaking to other teachers and having the principal very involved (no, it's not embarrassing that you need "help") will give you a gauge on that.

trixx

Sat, Dec 09 2017, 9:41 pm

amother wrote:

I imagine you don't teach math...

Oh how I wish I did. I teach various subjects all very general in that it's not text based and has no worksheets or text books to go with. Half my energy is put into creating the curriculum, let alone lesson plans.

Math is so structured. Start with bell work. Demonstrate the new rule. Have a girl come up and do it. Assign problems. Review the problems.

Math also has clear consequences. No book, can't come to class. Step outside, do problems 1-5 and show me. Extra page for homework. Finished early, get started on homework.

If you don't have to worry about the curriculum then all your focus can be (as it should be) on lesson planning and classroom management, which is literally teaching 101, so if you can't do that then what exactly are you doing. Time to attend a class or workshop, educate yourself on techniques, follow some great blogs (especially for math!! The entire world teaches that, pinterest alone has a billion applicable ideas) and resources and get support.

imasoftov

Sun, Dec 10 2017, 5:32 am

amother wrote:

I'd have gotten up there, said "no homework tonight, class dismissed" and walked out.

PinkFridge

Sun, Dec 10 2017, 8:37 am

amother wrote:

Is there a school guidance counselor? If a teacher knows that there is a situation, or if she senses it herself, sure, you handle said kid(s) differently. But it is reasonable to expect kids to submit to fair authority, fair being the operative word. These are real world skills.

amother

Red

Sun, Dec 10 2017, 4:10 pm

imasoftov wrote:

I'd have gotten up there, said "no homework tonight, class dismissed" and walked out.

He picked a girl who was well-behaved enough to follow through. Not the really misbehaving girls. Everyone got the message though.

imasoftov

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 4:12 am

amother wrote:

He picked a girl who was well-behaved enough to follow through. Not the really misbehaving girls.

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