Close friend lives in a filthy house and doesn't realize it

amother

Cyan

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 4:42 pm

amother wrote:

Crazy number of likes, right? But I get it, mentioning standards of clean will make anyone sensitive to the issue speak up. I don't take it personally. We all have topics that are triggers, that make us get defensive online.

But hey, at least I still hang out in her home weekly, unlike the posters who wouldn't want to be in her house. That's a bit much.

It’s ridiculous how many people think this is acceptable! I would not say anything to the woman it’s none of my business but the amount of people who think having a dirty toilet is normal 😳

SpottedBanana

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 4:50 pm

Didn't we just have this thread? keym wrote it excellently:

Cluttered is leaving toys on the floor and dishes in the sink overnight. Thats perfectly fine.
Messy is those toys staying on the floor all week and the dishes sitting 2-3 days. Again ok.
Dirty is if the bathroom doesnt get wiped down every two weeks. Kind of gross but no one is calling dyfs.
Filthy is a bathroom never even getting wiped with a clorox wipe. You start getting concerned.
Disgusting involves rats, urine smell in the kitchen etc and an immediate call dyfs.
I would imagine that most people who are being accused of disfunction fall between messy and dirty. Again just mygut feeling.

This sounds like dirty, kind of gross. Honestly, if you inconspicuously clean the bathroom when you're there, you will have done an amazing chessed, the real kind of chessed.

mommy3b2c

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 4:56 pm

SpottedBanana wrote:

I think it’s even more nuanced then keym. For example, I will leave toys out for a few days. One toy. In the corner of the playroom. That my son plays with all day. But to have tons of toys scattered all over the kitchen floor all the time is very messy. Toys on my kitchen floor get cleaned everyday. It’s not gross if someone doesn’t, though.

Shuly

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 5:00 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

So, in my city we have desalinated water, which is really heavy in calcium and lime deposits. How do you get the toilet clean? I've tried every chemical on the market, and every scrubber I can find. I scrub the toilet with every flush, and it STILL looks gross!

They do not sell CLR cleaner in Israel, and you can't bring it in because it's a liquid. Mad

Sano 00 - it comes in a green bottle with a yellow cap.
https://www.sano.co.il/en/prod.....7%AA/

amother

Pink

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 5:07 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

I don’t know if or what op can do about the situation. But I’m shocked about how many of you think this is even semi normal to live like this. It literally sounds like living in a dirty pig sty. And don’t bother disinviting me to your house. I wouldn’t come anyway.

I’m with u. I don’t think it sounds so ok. Y the defensive remarks everyone? Op is not being a yente. I hear true concern in her post.
I have the same problem but it’s my daughter, yes, gasp daughter who lives similarly. Not exactly but I see some parallels. & sooooo not me 😞
She lives overseas and I only visit her occasionally. I would never ever say a word to her!! But when I was there recently I took the liberty of scrubbing the daylights out of her bathtub! She appreciated it so much! She admitted that she is not ‘good at these things’. I didn’t exactly agree with her but I did tell her that she has strengths that others don’t have. Which is true.
So I say MYOB. It’s the only way to maintain a close relationship. Unless of course things are really really dangerous.

MiracleMama

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 5:18 pm

amother wrote:

She thinks it's just messy from having a few kids but that it's actually clean. She recently told me she's proud of herself for being so on top of things. But the reality is, there's poop stains in the toilet, random dirt/hair who knows what all over the bathroom, thick dust on her shelves, random junk on every counter and literally every corner of her house, and the list goes on. The microwave is covered in food remnants, the cabinets have food smudges all over them etc etc etc

I spend a lot of time with her and see that this is the constant state. I believe she can afford help but I think 1. she's clueless about what a clean home is 2. She has too much pride to admit she needs help.

Her home is dirty and potentially unsafe for her crawling baby. She's a great person and I don't want to insult her. Is there any tactful way to insist she gets some cleaning help?

I didn't read all the responses but just wanted to say that while I understand your concern and I feel the same unease about real filth vs. mess, there simply is absolutely no nice way to say anything to your friend and therefore you should say nothing. Even to hint that she could afford a cleaning lady and wouldn't that be nice for her is overstepping greatly. The only thing you can do is choose to make your own home the meeting place more often, or some other public location. Out of sight, out of mind.

Also want to add that I have found that many, many people live in the conditions you describe and are perfectly healthy despite my feelings about it.

southernbubby

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 5:36 pm

I looked online for articles about whether or not there actually is anything unhealthy about a messy or dirty house. There isn't really much about any health effects of a dirty home unless there are animals and insects in the house that leave their droppings near human food or when pets are not housebroken and are leaving their waste all over the house. Some people are allergic to dust, mold, and pet dander which can be present in a dirty house. Fire hazards can also be present in a hoarded house and there is always the danger of slipping and falling on items or liquids left on the floor.

Here is an article from a decade ago about how CPS workers decide if a home is dangerous due to filth or if it is simply every person's choice about the level of housekeeping that they maintain:

http://action4cp.org/documents.....r.pdf

amother

Firebrick

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 5:39 pm

amother wrote:

It’s ridiculous how many people think this is acceptable! I would not say anything to the woman it’s none of my business but the amount of people who think having a dirty toilet is normal 😳

Who says I think it's normal?! I cant put up a camera and run clean the toilet every time one of the messy kids does their thing!! I've accepted it to be normal. And clutter is a preference not a must. A smelly house?!yeah that's gross

amother

Seagreen

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 6:59 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Crumbs and dirt can sometimes attract roaches and other insects. Sometimes this can't be helped, like in an apartment building, but I have a friend whose kids had terrible asthma due to the roaches.

saralem

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 7:13 pm

I grew up with a very messy sibling. When she married and had kids, her home was actually dirty. Like even straight out of the dishwasher the silverware was gross. I always cleaned and scrubbed every time I babysat. I think she probably was insulted but grateful. I never could figure out how they lived like that. And I was just a kid!
It must be very hard to not be a natural cleaner and know that your house is icky but you can’t do anything about it.

amother

Seafoam

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 7:21 pm

op im gonna be very honest with you. because you sound like you care and is a real friend. and you are concerned for her.
1- shes an adult and she can do what she wants in her own house
2-everyone is happy so dont take away her happiness
3-she might have a child with severe issues(like I do) that causes alot of dirt and its temporary till they grow up

so I have a child with adhd, encopresis and host of issues. this child creates such a mess and so much chaos. I am by nature a clean and neat person. there is just so much I can clean and run after. if you would be in my shoes you would totally understand. I decided that I need to be relaxed and happy and clean is secondary. my kids will not remember this they will remember a happy mother. thats all. and that takes a lot of work. trust me looking away at what my ds does is torture but I choose that over a messed up emotional child. I have grown kids too. I have been in the chinuch field for many years. you will know this when you have dealt with tough children and have to make choices as these. and you will know that you have made a great and smart choice.

realize you have a superb friend maybe there is something you can learn from her. she must be someone I would want as a firend.

amother

Apricot

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 7:27 pm

I don't care about clutter, toys everywhere underfoot, laundry in a pile on the couch to be folded, even dishes in the sink. But a good friend rarely cleans her microwave that has months of food splatter, her stove top covered with grease, her kitchen floor, her refrigerator with spills...

The bathroom is always clean, tho. She just hates cleaning the kitchen. I've told her to make a day of it, I'll help her, and then just wipe up kitchen messes 123 as they happen. We've done it together a few times, but she always goes back to her old ways. She needs to get her kids and hub involved to wipe their messes, but she says they're too busy. Ok.

amother

Azure

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 7:48 pm

That's what my house looks like on Monday mornings before the cleaning lady comes embarrassed

She's there every weekday, so house is clean and presentable during the week. There's still a lot of clutter because the cleaning lady is there to clean, not organize. I hate organizing almost as much as I hate cleaning, but organizers cost a lot more than cleaning ladies, so once a year or so, I get someone in to help me do a big purge and put everything in place, but for whatever reason I'm just incapable of keeping up an organization system. My husband and two of my kids have ADHD (as far as we know; we also have kids who are too young for a diagnosis, so the possibility exists that there may be more ADHD coming down the pike) and let me tell you, it's incredible how quickly ADHD people can shred any and all sense of order to bits. Yes, even with treatment. So I learned to stop caring and even embrace it a bit. I'm not exactly good at keeping neat myself (though I'm the best at it out of all of us). My parents are super critical about it, which isn't fun. I won't have them over on weekends, only on weekdays. My dad once asked me if I was raised in a barn, I looked him straight in the eye and said "if I was, it was YOUR barn!"

Anyway, my point is, we are happy, healthy, and mostly functional. Our talents simply lie in realms other than housekeeping. I do agree that there's a basic level of hygeine that's necessary, and honestly, I have full time cleaning help because I can't manage to meet that standard without it. I know I'm judged for it. It hurts but we are who we are and it's not gonna change, you take us as we are (because we're not harming anyone). I don't know that you can really say anything to your friend without hurting her. Maybe hint that your cleaning lady is looking for more jobs and does she know anyone who needs.

Aylat

Thu, Dec 28 2017, 2:29 am

southernbubby wrote:

Interesting article, thanks for posting it.

amother

Yellow

Thu, Dec 28 2017, 10:04 am

I think it sounds dirty but not dangerous (other than the choking hazards for the baby of food on the floor, which probably happens in even clean households). Generally on this topic you should MYOB, but I would think if your cleaning lady has extra days then you can let her know and tell her how much you love cleaning help cuz your house gets soooo clean and someone else is doing it...