Turns out a frequent shabbos guest is gay

amother

Pansy

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 9:53 am

amother Snapdragon wrote:

What do you mean by "living the lifestyle"? I think it makes a difference if this person is openly and proudly gay or not. I would be uncomfortable with anyone being around my kids who openly and proudly, with full knowledge, violates fundamental mitzvos on purpose.

He's an older bochur who isn't looking for a shidduch. That alone is a different lifestyle.

amother

Lilac

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 10:01 am

amother Pansy wrote:

He's an older bochur who isn't looking for a shidduch. That alone is a different lifestyle.

I think most of us grew up knowing "elderly" bachelor's that we all knew were not actively looking for a shidduch. They were a part of the shul, frequent shabbos guests, etc. Nobody thought twice about including them, it was fine.

BTW it's really not appropriate or respectful for the children of a host/hostess to know the dating/shidduch status of their parents' adult guests. Even if they are heterose*xual, and whether they looking to be set up via frum shidduch style, or going to MO singles events. This is not something they should be privy to, it's none of their business. Their parents should not be discussing it with them.

amother

Pansy

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 10:11 am

amother Lilac wrote:

I'm reflecting on OPs first message. Seems like this is a big deal at her table.

(we don't know how old this guest is.. I know what you mean... they used to use the phrase "confirmed bachelor".. but this guy could be early 30s... not at the "elderly" stage)

amother

Lilac

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 10:16 am

amother Pansy wrote:

Even if he's early 30s, his dating/shidduch situation or lack of it, should not be something that's a topic of discussion in front of, or with, her children.
I was single at that age and I can tell you I avoided invites from those people who I knew talked about me in front of their kids like that. It's so disrespectful and an invasion of privacy. Someone's personal life, especially if it is difficult should not be a source of entertainment or gossip to others especially in front of children, to just casually analyze and discuss in that way. Invite or don't invite but leave their shidduch status out of it.

amother

Pansy

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 10:31 am

amother Lilac wrote:

I completely agree with you.

Petra

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 10:52 am

amother Snapdragon wrote:

If it wasn't known to OP that he was gay then he wasn't that open about it. It only became known because of gossip. Now this person who happens to be gay but otherwise respectful at one's Shabbos table has one less place to go for Shabbos.

amother

NeonGreen

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 11:08 am

amother OP wrote:

It's uncomfortable and I spoke with our rav and the person living that lifestyle isn't someone I want my kids to spend time with at my table my table is special for my family and people we can feel comfortable with. It's a personal individual thing.

Totally your decision to make, but doesn’t make it any less mean.

Treating a person like a leper and isolating him for something that wasn’t even an issue before you found out. Try to put yourself (or your son) in that position, and imagine how that would feel.

tichellady

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 11:21 am

I guess he should just kill himself or leave the frum community and do more sins since Gd clearly made a mistake when choosing his zxual preferences. clearly he doesn't belong at a shabbos table even if he doesn't engage in anything forbidden, just because it's a possibility that it could happen.

( I'm not being serious, in case that isn't clear)

amother

Hibiscus

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 11:26 am

tichellady wrote:

Yeah, unless he's preaching about anti torah things or actively doing anti torah things in your presence, why would he be treated any differently than someone who in their personal life doesn't keep Shabbos? Why would someone be treated worse for in their personal life reportedly engaging in legal, consensual adult relationships than those who have reportedly engaged in illegal and/or non-consensual adult relationships or abuse?

I guess it's because we'll protect liars but not honest people...since the important thing is to fit a mold and appearances. (also sarcasm)

amother

Pansy

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 11:30 am

amother Hibiscus wrote:

Maybe OP doesn't want people around her table that don't keep Shabbos.

amother

Skyblue

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 11:33 am

This bugs me to no end. Since when do we have a right to decide if someone's inner struggle makes them a worse kind of person than others. People sin with lashon hara all the time and that's a pretty bad sin but noone seems to care about that.

amother

Hibiscus

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 11:33 am

amother Pansy wrote:

Maybe OP doesn't want people around her table that don't keep Shabbos.

Maybe. At least that would be consistent.

It still would be sad and potentially even contrary to halachah (provided those who may be mechalel shabbos aren't doing so in their presence).

amother

Snapdragon

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 11:34 am

amother Pansy wrote:

He's an older bochur who isn't looking for a shidduch. That alone is a different lifestyle.

Seriously? That doesn't mean that he engages in any acts that are anti Torah. Just being a bachelor is not a sin.

If he gave you creepy vibes before, that's a different story. I wouldn't have a straight guest who gave me creepy vibes. But it sounds like you're being overly judgemental here. Does the person who told you he's gay have any proof?