DD inappropriate exposure friend's smartphone

amother

Viola

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 12:47 pm

I think ultimately it boils down to the hashkafa of the school and parental majority. It sounds like from OP's posts, there are other parents who are upset. Shes not a lone right winger with her kid in a school that's totally different than her hashkafa. Chatting with boys online, posting pictures of themselves dancing, etc. is not on the spectrum of acceptable even in more open minded right wing families.

amother

Moccasin

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 1:01 pm

amother OP wrote:

She is kid #1, but she is extremely resistant to rules. She's very strong-minded and independent. We've had open conversations about these types of things before and she says she wants to be a good girl, but right now as a teen she also wants to experiment and try out the things her friends are doing. We discussed long-term ramifications, etc. and she is trying to be "smart" about what she does, but as much as she knows what's right and wrong, she is still going to do these things. That's where she's holding.

I was that type of teen a few short years ago. I genuinely thought I’m acting smart and using the internet carefully. I was also strong minded and independent, hated rules and loved to experiment. I was a very good girl and wanted to be good but I still got into major trouble. Some of it my parents knew about but for the most part they will never know.

amother

Red

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 1:01 pm

amother Viola wrote:

There was one 50 mins away with a bus/van, and 2 local coed, more left modox schools.
Yes, it was a community school run by right wing with a huge mix of students.

OP said "the school said there is nothing they can do," so I suspect this is an actual community school that serves the whole community. If your community had two MO schools, then the RW school was not for the entire community, even if it had what you consider a huge mix.

amother

Viola

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 1:13 pm

amother Red wrote:

Well, I came here to say that it is wrong for them to see that there's nothing for them to do. They, in partnership with the parents, are mutually responsible for the spiritual well-being of the girls in the school. Since being married, I have lived in a very out of town place (think 25-30 girls in the high school). Even though it was the only RW school, they did not accept all kids if they felt it wasn't the right fit. Girls had to go out of town.

I think schools can have hashkafos and certain standards for the protection of the girls, even if they are a community school. If she was doing drugs and bringing her friends along, then would the school say something? What if one girl brought along her friends to join a gang outside of school and go around shooting people? Would the school still say "there's nothing we can do?"

I don't think so. So clearly this is not very important to them. If it is very important to a significant percentage of the parents, then the school will have to change its attitude. Unfortunately sometimes it takes time and human sacrifices for change to occur.

amother

Red

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 1:23 pm

amother Viola wrote:

Of course a school can have hashkafos. But being "the only RW school," is not the same as being a community school run by RW staff. I'm not saying one is better or worse than the other, and not saying which kind this school should be. But if they are set up and funded to serve the entire community, they can't expel kids for the kind of stuff OP is describing.

The comparison to drugs and murder is ridiculous. We are talking about hashkafic out of school differences, like talking to boys, using social media, and posting dancing videos. Not a life of crime which would get you expelled on from any non-Jewish private school, not to mention imprisoned.

amother

Viola

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 2:35 pm

amother Red wrote:

My point was not to equate the activities, my point was that of course the school can do something. They just don't want to be bothered. It is happening outside of school, but the girl is dragging others along with her, so yes it becomes a communal responsibility. And it does not sound like the OP is alone in her concerns. I am also not advocating for expelling, but I do think it's important to have policies regarding outside of school activities when it affects other kids.

amother

Sienna

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 2:42 pm

amother Red wrote:

Kid #1 is easier than Kid #2, so that's good Smile

Keep the open conversation going, great job so far.

If she's willing, I would try learning something with her regularly, at least a few times a week. Could be you or your husband. And I don't mean some mussar book about the internet or something "inspirational." But an actual classic text. Something from Tanach that she hasn't done in school, Mishneh Torah, Sefer HaChinuch, something like that. If her skills are not strong, then use English translation, but learn the concepts well, try to connect them back to other texts and mitzvos. Try to get her to volunteer her opinions and reactions and engage her in discussion. Doesn't matter what it's about, can be something totally pareve like hilchos maaser or korbanos. When you've covered a substantial unit, celebrate with a family siyum.

My experience is that regular parent-child learning, if the material is learned in a way that is interesting and enjoyable for the child, strengthens both the relationship to the parent and the relationship to Torah. And as those relationships strengthen, things that are in tension with those relationships become more dissonant and less appealing. YMMV.

??????? shes a girl a teenage girl
ive never heard of a energetic type curious girl that wants to learn tanach inside and make siyumim?!?!

amother

Fri, Mar 31 2023, 10:17 am

amother Moccasin wrote:

Having that perspective, what do you think would have helped you stay out of trouble?

NotInNJMommy

Fri, Mar 31 2023, 10:24 am

amother OP wrote:

Meeting strangers on the internet? What could be worse?

If she wants to be on the internet and on a smart phone, it will be with strangers if there is zero room for acceptable social interaction on such a device.

When kids' peers are their primary folks they interact with on their devices, because they also have them, then they aren't chatting with random strangers.

When the use of such a device is relegated to secret, contraband, and underground, then yes, the forbidden fruit will more likely exclusively be a tempting way to rebel.

Most people who use devices/internet regularly as a neutral tool, aren't treating them as a gateway drug into dangerous and antisocial behavior.

jweiss

Fri, Mar 31 2023, 10:33 am

This may be unpopular here but I don’t think you as a parent can control or change this other kid. It is also not the school’s responsibility to do so if it is happening is outside of school hours. If you really think this behavior is dangerous focus on helping your child see that. Or on giving them the education and protections they need to navigate the internet safely. As a former teenager let me tell you, if she wants to do it she will do it with this friend or without her. Having the school punish this girl for hanging out with your daughter and doing things that she thinks is okay but you don’t likely will only hurt your daughter and her friend, possibly forever.

amother

Red

Fri, Mar 31 2023, 11:56 am

amother OP wrote:

Does anyone have recommendations for good resources for education for her on this topic? Googling it comes up with an overwhelming list. I found some great videos, but I'm not comfortable with the level of exposure in them (lots of graphic examples of [filth], s-xual predator situations, etc.).

If she is chatting unsupervised with strangers online, she needs to understand at least:

- everyone she talks to online should be assumed to be a liar and cannot be trusted about anything. Age, height, weight, marital or relationship status, pictures provided, family situation. The sympathetic teen boy who's also struggling with frumkeit could very well be a pervy 50 year old man. Or, even if she video chats with him, he could be a 25 year old married guy. Some people have baby faces. There have been a number of cases where people 20+ or even 30+ posed as high school students successfully for months or years before discovery. IRL, not online even. Example: https://www.cnn.com/2016/02/29......html

- catfishing examples

- assume everything sent is permanent and can be made public anytime. Chat transcripts, chat videos, screenshots, audio, literally everything. Even when an app claims to delete things, a person on the other end can record them with a second device.

- how revealing pictures get shared and made public and how permanent they are once out

- blackmail - people will use one embarrassing picture, chat transcript or recording to extort worse stuff out of kids, and the kids do it because they're so scared of being found out and humiliated

- even if she makes terrible decisions and does stuff she promised not to do, or does exactly the dumb stuff that you warned her on above, she should always always come straight to you if anything is freaking her out or she feels scared or over her head.

amother

Red

Fri, Mar 31 2023, 12:14 pm

Also, you mention that certain educational materials you find too explicit, but I don't think that should be a concern for you if she is already exploring the internet this way.

In my opinion, safety-wise, the absolute worst case scenario is a naive sheltered kid interacting freely with worldly people in the outside world. If your DD is intent and can't be dissuaded from this sort of exploring, safer for her to be worldly and savvy.

amother

Red

Fri, Mar 31 2023, 12:22 pm

amother OP wrote:

Thank you, those are very helpful points.

Good luck. It's wonderful that you are so involved and she's open with you.

Decades ago, when AOL and chat rooms were new, I started talking to what I thought was a boy 2 years older than me. Because my mom and I were close, I told her and she made sure I put an end to it. She helped me see how unsafe it was and how little I really knew at all about him and how shady some of the things he said were. If I didn't have that close relationship with her, who knows.