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-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
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amother
Dodgerblue
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 Wed, May 24 2023, 11:49 am
| amother Zinnia wrote: | No, but they are not as dependent solely on mom at age 6 months.
Do you really want to start this conversation? It's worth at least a splitoff, no? |
If your POV is that infants need one on one care - its clear that no daycare would work for you.
(and you keep moving the dial on this conversation).
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amother
Begonia
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Wed, May 24 2023, 12:14 pm
Dodgerblue, what is your goal here. Zinnia is trying to help our children with this research and education and you are intent on hurting her message. As an empathetic ( hopefully) human don’t you want to see our children raised by their mothers?!
Forget research for a second, what intuitively feels best.
Daycare is a necessary evil for some but it’s not ideal on any level. That should be common sense and the fact that you are so intent on on knocking Zinnia down I think beckons some inner reflection on your part.
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amother
Dodgerblue
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Wed, May 24 2023, 12:25 pm
| amother Begonia wrote: | Dodgerblue, what is your goal here. Zinnia is trying to help our children with this research and education and you are intent on hurting her message. As an empathetic ( hopefully) human don’t you want to see our children raised by their mothers?!
Forget research for a second, what intuitively feels best.
Daycare is a necessary evil for some but it’s not ideal on any level. That should be common sense and the fact that you are so intent on on knocking Zinnia down I think beckons some inner reflection on your part. |
My goal is point out that these blanket statements have no basis. I dislike fudging things for purposes of carrying out an agenda (which Zinnia has laid out).
Not ideal is not the same as "always damaging".
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BaltoMom65
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Wed, May 24 2023, 12:35 pm
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Actually...financially, daycare is a privilege. Especially when you are not bringing in enough money to justify it. On a personal note, please just live and let live https://www.theatlantic.com/na.....7962/
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amother
Zinnia
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Wed, May 24 2023, 12:49 pm
| amother Dodgerblue wrote: | If your POV is that infants need one on one care - its clear that no daycare would work for you.
(and you keep moving the dial on this conversation). |
Like I said, the nursing/ 6 months discussion is not for this thread.
What is your point here?
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amother
Zinnia
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Wed, May 24 2023, 12:51 pm
| amother Dodgerblue wrote: | | How could you now like the idea of daycare if daycare has negative effects on all children? |
I said that I like the idea of daycare and used to be very pro-daycare.
I still like the idea but I admit that the research does not support daycare, it supports children doing best when they are at home with a parent. Unfortunately not everything I like the idea of or want for myself is good for my children (or any child). What is so hard to understand?
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amother
Blushpink
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Wed, May 24 2023, 12:55 pm
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To those that are saying day care is bad. Do you think a nanny 1:1 or 1:2 kids is better? Or you’re saying best to be home w mom. Because I’ve seen many nanny’s walking the kids and not interacting, on their phones etc. atleasf in daycare they’re held accountable!! Teachers are always being watched. More eyes on my kid.
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amother
Zinnia
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Wed, May 24 2023, 12:58 pm
| amother Dodgerblue wrote: | My goal is point out that these blanket statements have no basis. I dislike fudging things for purposes of carrying out an agenda (which Zinnia has laid out).
Not ideal is not the same as "always damaging". |
Except it IS damaging.
The fact that it is LESS damaging than not having enough food or a roof over your head or other basics does not negate the fact that daycare IS damaging to children, it DOES have negative effects in almost all cases.
Lechatchila if something were damaging we would never put our children in that situation. Bediavad, sometimes the choice is between damaging and even worse damaging. Do you vote? Are any candidates lechatchila? Ideally we would have a government that was not corrupt and took care of all its citizens etc. In reality every government causes damage, but you vote for the one who you think will cause LESS damage. That is just life, that ideals aren't reality so you choose between less damage and more damage.
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amother
Dodgerblue
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Wed, May 24 2023, 1:01 pm
| amother Zinnia wrote: | Like I said, the nursing/ 6 months discussion is not for this thread.
What is your point here? |
I agree with you - the sidebar wasn't for the thread.
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amother
Dodgerblue
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Wed, May 24 2023, 1:04 pm
| amother Zinnia wrote: | Except it IS damaging.
The fact that it is LESS damaging than not having enough food or a roof over your head or other basics does not negate the fact that daycare IS damaging to children, it DOES have negative effects in almost all cases.
Lechatchila if something were damaging we would never put our children in that situation. Bediavad, sometimes the choice is between damaging and even worse damaging. Do you vote? Are any candidates lechatchila? Ideally we would have a government that was not corrupt and took care of all its citizens etc. In reality every government causes damage, but you vote for the one who you think will cause LESS damage. That is just life, that ideals aren't reality so you choose between less damage and more damage. |
Show me the long term study that shows that all children who go through daycare are damaged - and I'll agree to your claim.
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amother
Zinnia
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Wed, May 24 2023, 1:07 pm
| amother Blushpink wrote: | | To those that are saying day care is bad. Do you think a nanny 1:1 or 1:2 kids is better? Or you’re saying best to be home w mom. Because I’ve seen many nanny’s walking the kids and not interacting, on their phones etc. atleasf in daycare they’re held accountable!! Teachers are always being watched. More eyes on my kid. |
So this really depends on sooo many factors. To break it up we need to look at what is damaging about daycare.
* being away from primary caregivers for many hours a day
* being away from your safe place (home) for many hours a day
* being with far too many children who are also competitors for too many hours a day
* too much stimulation, for too long
* too high expectations, for too long
* structure doesn't usually line up with the child's natural schedule/ patterns
* aggression from other kids
* daycare workers take days off and switch and in general disappear from the child's life after the child has bonded deeply with them (deeply at least from the child's perspective)
* not enough quiet time, safe time, one-on-one time, not enough security that "when I need something someone is always there for me"
* who the nanny is and how much she is loving, hands-on, etc.
So some of these issues are solved with a nanny, not all, but depending on the details it can be a lot better for the kids or not so much.
Is the nanny someone constant? I have cousins who had a live-in and she basically raised those kids, she stayed with the family for years and years. That's different than a nanny who comes this year but next year won't be there anymore. Is she loving, caring, attentive? How many hours is she there?
A wonderful nanny is definitely right up there with being taken care of by mom or dad, and especially if she stays for years, I don't see why she'd be less good for the child than mom or dad. But maybe a smaller daycare setting would be better for a child than a nanny who is irresponsible and inattentive, that really depends on the specifics of the situation.
Daycare caregivers aren't always held accountable btw.
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amother
Zinnia
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Wed, May 24 2023, 2:06 pm
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honey36
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Wed, May 24 2023, 2:30 pm
Not sure of this question was asked already, but what about leaving kids in daycare longer hours, but part of the time they are sleeping.
Like mine is there from around 9-3, but she sleeps from around 12-2. So some days I could technically pick her up at say, 1:00, but I don't because I don't want to interrupt her nap.
So basically I think for her it better to be there longer hours.
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amother
Begonia
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Wed, May 24 2023, 3:24 pm
| amother Dodgerblue wrote: | My goal is point out that these blanket statements have no basis. I dislike fudging things for purposes of carrying out an agenda (which Zinnia has laid out).
Not ideal is not the same as "always damaging". |
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amother
Blushpink
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Wed, May 24 2023, 3:34 pm
| honey36 wrote: | Not sure of this question was asked already, but what about leaving kids in daycare longer hours, but part of the time they are sleeping.
Like mine is there from around 9-3, but she sleeps from around 12-2. So some days I could technically pick her up at say, 1:00, but I don't because I don't want to interrupt her nap.
So basically I think for her it better to be there longer hours. |
I don’t think picking up early would be beneficial at all In this situation. Cranky baby with interrupting nap doesn’t seem better than being at daycare an extra two hours. Give yourself time for yourself to rest , errand etc. take advantage and don’t feel guilty especially the baby is napping!! Us mothers need some self care time as well.
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amother
Zinnia
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Wed, May 24 2023, 5:29 pm
| honey36 wrote: | Not sure of this question was asked already, but what about leaving kids in daycare longer hours, but part of the time they are sleeping.
Like mine is there from around 9-3, but she sleeps from around 12-2. So some days I could technically pick her up at say, 1:00, but I don't because I don't want to interrupt her nap.
So basically I think for her it better to be there longer hours. |
I would tend to agree. Either pick her up before naptime, or wait until they wake up. But waking a sleeping baby/toddler - not worth it, not good for either of you.
OTOH if you know ahead of time that you will be able to pick her up early, you can ask the daycare staff to keep her awake until you get there, and then let her nap at home.
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amother
Tiffanyblue
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Wed, May 24 2023, 6:52 pm
I think we can fault our goverment for the minimal maternity leave the US offers mothers. In Europe or canada the mothers get extended maternity leave to bond and take care of their baby.
That being said, its silly to say that its perctly the same emotionally for your child, whether they are home with Mom or goes out to daycare. Its like saying that formula is better that breastmilk. Thats silly. Of course if one has no choice fed is best, but who is going to argue that mom's isnt superior.
As a working mother, I also have to make hard dicisions. But I dont delude myself by arguing that I'm doing it for the little ones. Of course its healthier to stay home!
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