How should I have handled my 4 yr old?

amother

Camellia

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:22 pm

Have you ever tried a sticker chart with her?

Imo at that age you don't even need a prize at the end. Just she gets a sticker if she goes to sleep nicely.

Another option is that some of the pre-approved activities are only for a girl who goes to sleep quietly. So if she doesn't go to sleep nicely, the next night she will lose out on the markers and the scissors. Or something like that.

I just want to say that I think you're doing a great job! Mommying is hard (and it doesn't get easy any time soon. Bh for kids but they are not easy)

amother

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:36 pm

amother Camellia wrote:

We have tried sticker charts in the past, with a prize at the end, and it's worked pretty well, I just find it very hard to remember to go back to it each day 😋

I did think abt the removing-an-option idea, and was trying to figure out if the result is immediate enough, or if she's old enough that the consequence coming the next day will still work.

And I appreciate the support! It is hard! I never thought it would be easy, but I didn't know just how hard every day can get. I love my kids beyond and would never regret having them and intend to have more, but boy, is it draining!

amother

Peony

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 12:03 am

amother OP wrote:

Oh sorry, I missed this. My worry was that it's starting to happen more often which is why I felt like it's something she learned might work, and not from a genuine place of fear of discomfort, and so if the results are very favorable to her, she'll continue to make use of it.

Is there any treat she loves & craves? One of my kids are a real chocoholic & we had a deal that if he's good at night, he gets a chocolate in the morning. It worked out well.
(His issue was asking for milk bottles several times a night & at 4 years old, it was time to stop it.)

amother

Bluebonnet

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 12:05 am

I don't think this will be a popular response, however I think you should work on deepening your relationship and before bed is a very powerful time for this. I would read books with her in your room. And speak with her quietly about how much you love her, and how she is special and she'll always be your oldest child, etc...or have a nice quiet discussion on a topic of her choosing.. even possibly until she falls asleep. You can transfer her later. She sounds like an intelligent child and it's not easy to have to share her parents with two younger siblings. And she can probably pick up on the vibe that you really want her to fall asleep because you've understandably had a long day with three little ones. (No judgment here... I have five kids and was eager to have time for myself also). Remind her that she's older and gets to have special time with you. Remember she is only four and is barely out of toddlerhood herself. She also probably wants to sometimes be the "baby" and scream. The time with you is the reward or she can listen to a tape. I would probably not even talk about the other children waking up.

heidi

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 12:40 am

amother OP wrote:

So you would have put her in, let her scream, wake up all the kids, and then dealt with three screaming kids instead of one?

I totally get if she wakes up in the middle of the night screaming from a nightmare or cuz she's not feeling well, and the other kids unfortunately get woken up too, yes that's a fact of life with little kids and I am totally understanding and I just roll with the punches. This is different- this is her intentionally making a loud big deal because she knows that will wake up the other kids.

Wow
She's four years old.
That is really really young to be the manipulative b&&tch you make her out to be.
It is not your daughter's fault that you are tired and overwhelmed.
Making her the bad guy is immature and damaging to her. To say the least.

BrisketBoss

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 12:48 am

There's always a reason. Parents do this thing where they're like "I can't see a reason" or "They are doing it for an invalid reason" (how can you be the judge?) and therefore the child should be dealt with less compassionately.

It's a very behaviorist perspective that you are 'rewarding for bad behavior' when you connect with a child who is implicitly asking for connection. I've done it, and my children were still able to go to sleep with less support on future nights.

amother

PlumPink

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 1:19 am

I didn’t read everything but I totally get you OP.
When I had a newborn/baby and my next was 3.5 the idea of him waking her up was HUGELY triggering for me.
I was so nervous when he would talk loudly - I had never noticed him talking loudly before she was born.
The fact is - a woken up baby is hugely stressful so it totally makes sense that you would do whatever you could (within reason, and of course with your 4 year old’s needs in mind too) to prevent it.
Just reading your post made me stressed at the thought of you having to put two kids back to sleep.
Hatzlacha OP!

farm

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 1:20 am

Just want to reiterate that it’s possible she’s really not tired yet. No reason to get stuck on ‘a 4 year old needs x amount of sleep per night.’ If she’s waking up easily and refreshed each morning, she’s getting enough sleep. If she’s willing to look at books quietly with a Shabbos lamp or nightlight in bed until her eyes close, why not?
A possible idea- turn on a Shmuel Kunda CD or Middos Machine that she will listen to in bed with the light off? Incentive to keep quiet and she’ll probably drift off before it’s over.

amother

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 1:49 am

heidi wrote:

WOW. That was uncalled for. Please don't ever refer to my kid, or any kid, with such language ever again.

And fact is, little kids are the kings of manipulation. I'm not saying this in any negative or damaging way. It's just a part of their nature as they explore the world and see what works and what doesn't and what leads to what and what they can get away with. And sometimes I'm fine with being manipulated and I go along with it (Can I have an extra scoop of ice cream cuz you love me and I love you? Yes, honey, you can, cuz we DO love each other and my heart is melting) and other times I'm just not...

amother

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 1:50 am

amother PlumPink wrote:

Thanks for understanding my perspective Smile

I appreciate that you took the time to share that. I am definitely trying to balance all needs here!

amother

Eggplant

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 10:12 am

I'm surprised no one suggested listening to a cd in bed. I hate sound machines. I do music in bed until kids are old enough to read on their own chapter books. Reading is calming and makes my kids sleepy. Little ones looking and picture books keep them awake. Even when they pretend read they go through stories too fast. I like when they listen to a story and a song comes on in-between. They fall asleep during the mysic but the story keeps their minds from wandering. Some of our favorite 4 year old cd are

Reb alter
613 Torah island-suki and ding
Baruch learns series-Shmuel Kunder
613 Torah avenue
Sh! it's loshen hara
Some older uncle moishy's that are not lively

Then we continue to marvelous midos machine at the next age
Wish the music industry made good quality new kids music of this type because we heard all of them already. Just put it in a spot similar to where you put a sound machine and the volume should be to high to make the cd lively.

amother

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 12:00 pm

amother Eggplant wrote:

Yes, you're right, I grew up listening to The Golden Crown and When Zaidy Was Young. I didn't realize she's already old enough for that. Well, The Golden Crown can be a lil scary for a kid so maybe not that one. Smile

I don't even have a CD player! Or CDs! Maybe time to invest in a speaker just for their room. I actually have a Google Dot I'm not using, anyone have a good idea for how to have it play the story tracks I have on Spotify or downloaded, without playing it off my phone? Meaning, I don't want my phone to be connected to the Dot cuz I'm using it, I need something else that can play the tracks using the dot as a speaker. Maybe our iPad?

amother

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 12:06 pm

BrisketBoss wrote:

I'm not saying I can't see the reason or it's an invalid reason. To me it's fairly obvious, she doesn't want to go to bed yet, it's not as fun as staying up. When I was a kid I hated going to bed too, it's as simple as that. (Even if I was tired and yawning, I didn't want to stop what I was doing and go to bed.) She wasn't crying cuz I was not connecting with her, she was crying cuz I said it's time to stop playing and go to bed. (And she would be perfectly happy if I let her just stay up and play in the playroom while I did stuff in the kitchen, we connect plenty throughout the day, she's not lacking.) So if the reward for the screaming is to then let her stay up and play, what else did I just teach her but that if you scream very loudly, you get to stay up and play.