How should I have handled my 4 yr old?

AlwaysGrateful

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 9:45 pm

I guess I'm the only one who knows where you're coming from, OP. I know, you give them an inch...

If this was the first time it happened in a while, I wouldn't change the whole routine because of it. I would maybe say "Remember last night it when you went into your bed you started screaming? That is not going to happen anymore. The rule is that when you go into your bed at night, you need to be quiet." No need for explanations or anything else. It's a rule, said in a very firm voice. You talk about it beforehand, get her agreement before bedtime even starts. Then you remind her about it right before you go into the room. You tell her that you're going to be so proud of her, call Bubby, write her a mitzvah note, or whatever so you can tell Bubby/Morah/whatever how nicely she goes to sleep.

If she's generally a pretty compliant kid, which is what I'm sensing from your posts, I would be very surprised if it wouldn't work.

Yes, for a kid who is very high energy or impulsive or whatever, this wouldn't work. But again, I don't sense that that's your daughter.

amother

Burlywood

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 9:48 pm

amother OP wrote:

But she knows very well how to be quiet. Fact is if I had bribed her with something big enough she would for sure have been quiet. Cuz she knows how! She just wanted to make a big fuss so I couldn't put her to bed. And I don't want to turn this into a bribable thing where she starts doing it every night in order to manipulate me into giving her something she wants. She's done it very rarely in the past cuz they usually go to sleep at the same time but once in a while now she's started loudly crying on purpose so that I can't put her in.

She might not understand what u want...but stays quiet because you bribed her...signed by a mom of a 4 year old who wakes up her siblings almost every night

amother

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 9:52 pm

amother Peony wrote:

What's not sustainable, is expecting a quiet house once the little's are asleep. There should be a sound machine in every room & the kids should be used to sleeping in regular household noise. We live in a small apartment, my baby room is right off the kitchen & we don't just all stop our day because the baby is sleeping. Sound machine practically from when they're born & they get used to sleeping through regular household noise. The sound machine blocks out much of the noise.
I have older kids & I have alot to do when the little's go to bed. I can't expect everyone to be quiet.

I feel like you're bringing in points I never made, tbh. I do not expect the house to be silent once kids are sleeping- my husband and I still do our things and make noise. I never liked the idea of getting kids used to complete silence and pitch darkness, I rather them be resilient and able to sleep through things. There's just a difference between regular level of noise, and a kid full-on screaming at the top of her lungs! So that's the part I'm trying to address.
(Yes, the baby has a sound machine. The other room never really needed one.)

amother

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 9:55 pm

amother Brass wrote:

I feel like you think your 4 year old is 10. She may be the older of two more babies but she’s a really really young child still. She’s allowed to have meltdowns and tantrums.

And she does, all the time. She's a really emotional lil child. (And super sweet and loving, and very smart and creative bli ayin harah, and can hold a lot of interesting conversations with me, which is so fun.) I'm not expecting her to be 10, I know she's still little. My question was, all along, what would you do if your kid had such a meltdown, how would you handle this scenario? And I'm getting a lot of wise opinions and advice, I'm doing my best to take it all in without getting defensive, I'm trying to think what will work for our house and what won't. That's all.

amother

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 10:23 pm

AlwaysGrateful wrote:

I'm almost pathetically grateful to have ONE supporter who truly gets where I'm coming from 😄 and is not making me feel like I'm totally off base here.

In fact, I almost feel like I could have written your post myself, cuz that is usually how I handle challenging things. We have a conversation in advance, I prep her, we follow up after with how proud I am and we give Bubby a call or do a mitzvah note...

I'm ok with giving the routine-change a try though cuz like you sensed, she is a really compliant kid so I think it could work out ok and it might be what she really needs in reality. She's not high energy and hyperactive, she just really enjoys the things she enjoys! She loves reading, coloring, crafting, playing with her dolls and toys, and I can understand that sometimes it's hard to stop the fun stuff for the boring job of going to sleep. And maybe she really is just not tired enough yet. And if it's a plan we agreed on, she generally complies nicely.

amother

Peony

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 10:32 pm

amother OP wrote:

How often does the screaming happen? It doesn't seem like it's an often thing. It's age appropriate and when it does happen, I'd just do whatever it takes to quiet her down & wouldn't worry about it becoming a daily thing.

amother

Aquamarine

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 10:44 pm

I let my 4 year old look through books on her own until she gets tired. She usually does that in the hallway outside of her bedroom or in her bed with the door open so there is enough light to see.
My kids share a room and there was a period of time when she kept waking her little brother up every night. She’d go into her room and to his crib and just wake him up. So I started having her fall asleep in my bed and I would transfer her to hers once she was asleep.
She doesn’t do that anymore (I think she saw that as punishment and wanted the choice to fall asleep in her own bed) but occasionally for other reasons bedtime isn’t working out amongst the kids and I’ll have her fall asleep in my bed.

I guess my suggestion is just try to figure out what will work. Try not to be so black and white thinking about where and how and when they need to fall asleep. But also try to do it with your kid in mind because what worked for mine I’m sure wouldn’t necessarily work for yours or someone else’s.
Good luck.

Tzutzie

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 10:46 pm

amother OP wrote:

I'd take the kid out of the room and help her calm down outside. Then tell her it's bedtime and you need to sleep in order to be rested for tomorrow to gave another fun day! I'd probably give some extra hugs kisses. May e stay w her in the room a bit?
That's how I'd handle it if it was my kid.

I have a 4 yo and a 1.5 yo. They share a room.
I usually put 4 yo to bed BEFORE the 1.5 yo.
1.5 yo naps during the day and is ok if I keep her up another 10-15 extra minutes until 4 to falls asleep.
1.5 yo will jump in bed, talk to herself and yell out everyone's names to get our attention or even throw styff out of her crib or bang the bottle against the wood. 4 yo will just zzzzzzzzzz.
It also depends on a child. Some kids are lighter sleepers than other.

4 yo waking siblings /babies is a fact of life. She might have even done it on purpose. Ans whole we as parents can feel like plotzing. It is a totally normal behaviour for a 4 yo. Not that it's ok, we as parents need to parent them. But it's totally and completely normal
It's extremely frustrating but 4 yo do that.
Even if they tell you that they understand why it's important to be quiet they are not able to grasp the importance of it. And the work it will create if 4 yo woke baby or toddler. There is no way on earth she can understand it.

When I read your OP, my first thought was, "she must have been scared or very uncomfortable with the different bedtime setup"
To me it sounds like she was afraid to be the only awake kid in the room.

amother

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 10:54 pm

amother Blonde wrote:

I really think you have to keep baby in your room if you are so concerned he will wake up. The chances of that happening with a two year old AND four year old in the same room as him is just way too high. I think that would have basically removed all the urgency of the situation.

Oh, he's not in the same room. He's in his own room, with a sound machine, but they do share a wall, and also it's not that big a house in general, so if she's screaming at the top of her lungs cuz she's mad I told her she has to go to bed, he's gonna hear regardless. She did already wake him up by mistake several times in the past because of her screaming (or even just from calling loudly to me from the bathroom when she needs help at night).

amother

Blonde

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 10:56 pm

amother OP wrote:

Oh wow. I find that kind of shocking if you have a sound machine in his room.
Is it situated properly for maximum noise cancelation?

amother

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 10:57 pm

Tzutzie wrote:

I don't think she was scared or afraid or uncomfortable. Because it's happened a bunch of times already over the last few months that for whatever reason one of them was up when the other was sleeping, and they had to go in after. So it's not abnormal to her to that extent. I really do believe that she knows that if she screams very loudly, I'll take her out fast, and she's using it. And it doesn't help that she's very stubborn...

amother

Blonde

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:02 pm

amother OP wrote:

What would be the proper situation for maximum noise cancelation?
(I love everything about that sentence, I feel like an engineer or something 😂)

Ahahaha it does! LOL

Okay, this might be difficult to explain in words. I wish I could draw you a picture.

So let's say the majority of noise would be coming from outside baby's bedroom door, you want to put the sound machine near the door but facing baby's crib.

Like don't just put it on the other side of the room near a window. That would just cancel noise from the street.

Maybe look it up on google LOL

amother

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:05 pm

amother Peony wrote:

Even if she understands it, it's too much of a burnden & responsibility for you as a mother to put on a 4 year old little kid.

Going back to this, I just can't get behind this. Imagine if I came here to say that when she gets mad, she smacks her baby brother (which she does) and asked how to handle it, and everyone tells me, she's 4 and it's just too much of a burden and responsibility to expect her to control herself at all in this area. No, there are certain things kids can be taught from a young age are completely unacceptable, and will not be tolerated. I think everyone agrees that 4 year olds can comply with certain boundaries, it will take work, and it's just a matter of choosing which ones are worth investing your energy into, and which ones are really doable. "No smacking your sibling" is important enough to me, and "no screaming at the top of your lungs near your sleeping siblings" is also. I don't think it's an impossible and unfair thing to work with her on. Yes, the easiest way is avoidance of the situation entirely, which I'm gonna give a try and see if it works. But let's say it doesn't, and she STILL screams like that, I'm looking for answers on how to handle it.

amother

Ghostwhite

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:08 pm

I don’t have an answer because my 4 year old just does her own thing at this point (went through a long stage of waking up sibling but it stopped being interesting). Part of why she moved on is that, and I don’t recommend this, one of them always goes to sleep in the master. So they could each have their own rhythm. I know it’s normal for kids to share but it just doesn’t work for every kid.

Your kid sounds a bit more chilled so I would probably try the change in routine you wrote above , you asked what if she screams after- then the next day she has to go to bed earlier maybe? Not sure.

All that to say you have my sympathy. I have similar ages and sleep can be so rough. My almost 3 year old is so needy and clingy and hates when I’m taking care of the baby but ironically he’ll never late the baby sleep. I seriously lose my mind sometimes.

amother

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:13 pm

amother Blonde wrote:

Ok, here goes:
______________________________
| |____________ X_|
| ____________
| | | |
| |____________| |
|______________________________|

Ok that's the best I can do on my phone Smile

it's a rectangular room, that open area on the right is the door, that rectangle in the middle is his porta-crib. (The other side of the room has two beds and a night table, for guests, so he can't go there.) The noise machine is the x on the dresser, near him and near the door. The wall of the dresser is the wall that is shared with his sister's room. The other wall is the outside of the house.

Edit: oh no, it just won't format properly on phones. I tried.

amother

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 11:18 pm

amother Peony wrote:

Oh sorry, I missed this. My worry was that it's starting to happen more often which is why I felt like it's something she learned might work, and not from a genuine place of fear of discomfort, and so if the results are very favorable to her, she'll continue to make use of it.