S\o how do you come up with seminary payment ?

amother

Oleander

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 8:55 am

amother Ballota wrote:

I didn't have time to read through the whole thread. Half of my daughters class didn't go to ey sem this yr. In school that usually has 95percent of their girls going. They are in migdal, kerem, asaf and elyon. Or no sem . .

The tides are definitely starting to change

little neshamala

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 8:56 am

amother Brickred wrote:

Basically, once a girl leaves high school she matures. Its just part of normal development as the girl encounters change and other world experiences. If you happen to be in seminary, you will attribute it to seminary. If that same girl stays home and takes a job, she will then attribute her maturity to the job.

Seminaries just hijack normal development and take credit for it. If anything, seminaries delay some level of maturity because it limits exposure to the real world. The more exposure a girl gets, the more she matures. The less she gets, the less opportunity she has to mature. But regardless, there is some level of maturity by simply moving on in life from the sheltered school environment.

You don't need seminary to mature. Simply living life as an adult will do that for you.

100%
This post deserves to be read twice.

Chayalle

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 10:29 am

amother Seafoam wrote:

Disagree. When girls (and boys) stay home they are much more immature. Very often the parent takes care of them and does everything for them. They don’t have to go to Israel, but children do need to move out of the parents house and be on their own.

Disagree. There are many different ways to mature. Kids can live in their parents' home and help out with chores, be responsible for some of their expenses (cars, clothes, etc...) and laundry, work, etc...and all of this leads to maturity.

amother

Seafoam

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 10:39 am

Chayalle wrote:

They should be doing chores and laundry already. High schoolers (and younger) should be doing things to help around the house. This proves my point-parents will baby their children and children need to be on their own. Would you want your daughter to go out with someone who is living at home and never was in a dorm or had some form if independent living? Some of those boys end up marrying girls who turn into their mothers and then the girls complain that the boys don’t pull their weight and expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter. And parents come to rely on children who live at home which also isn’t healthy. The kids need to have their own lives.

amother

Slategray

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 10:43 am

amother Seafoam wrote:

Baloney.

My one sister who didn't go was actually the most independent of all of us sisters. She didnt go because she didn't want to, it wasn't her speed.

And nowadays so many girls in seminary have their moms taking care of so much for them- ordering stuff to the dorms, making shabbos phone calls, figuring out medical stuff. It's not like in the olden days where you went to seminary and wrote home letters and maybe called once a week. Personally. I'm not super close with my mom so I only called home twice a week. My friends thought I was nuts because they called home minimum once a DAY.

amother

Teal

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 10:43 am

amother Seafoam wrote:

Living in a dorm doesn't equal independence. He can still be bringing his laundry home. Or to the laundromat. He can be buying dinner and not cooking his own. He can be swiping daddy's credit card. Plenty of people here complain about their husband's not helping and I can assure you many of them probably lived in a dorm at some point.

amother

Oleander

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 10:46 am

amother Seafoam wrote:

I was extremely mature and capable
Didnt go to seminary.
Pursued my degree full time with other girls in a frum program, and went to night shiurim, on my own volition, without any teachers putting it in my schedule for me to do.
I DID remain at home, but I was so busy with my new schedule that I literally came home to eat supper and run back out again.

Of course this matured me!
All of a sudden I was making my own schedule, making sure I had time for ruchnius growth, arranging transportation for classes, arranging doctor appointments for myself, meeting with the finance deptmt of the college, etc
Girls who start working as well, sending resumes, sitting through interviews, arranging their schedule, collecting their W2s and filing taxes...

All of this matures you, regardless of whether youre living at home or not.

The people who dont mature are the ones calling for mommy and totty to arrange everything for them, and this happens to those who dorm as well.

amother

Brickred

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 10:51 am

amother Seafoam wrote:

I'm with Chayelle. Kids don't need to move out to mature. My daughter has matured so much this past year, she puts all her seminary friends to shame. She is juggling college, part-time work and managing her own personal budget (for non-necessities). She organizes her schedule, her own transportation and owns her time management. Despite the heavy college demands and rigorous schedule, she still includes time to lend a helping hand at home. I'm stand proudly on the sidelines watching her develop into mature well-grounded adult.

amother

Brickred

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 10:52 am

amother Oleander wrote:

Thank you. You said it better than I did.

amother

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 11:29 am

I was helping so much at home all my life (I barely had a social life in high school ) my seminary year in israel was my only year 'off' and now I'm able to be an amazing mother to my kids and also have a good time with them. If I would've stayed back that year and worked I would be so burnt out by now

amother

Brickred

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 11:43 am

amother OP wrote:

So you needed a sabbatical year based on your personal circumstance.

That's ok, and seminary is a good place for it. But I don't think seminaries promote themselves for this purpose. And I don't think we need to push for all kids to attend seminary based on this.

Chayalle

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 12:14 pm

amother Seafoam wrote:

Yes, as long as there are other ways where he had shown independence, I'd be okay with it. And I do inquire about families to try to gauge healthy relationships and no codependence of the parents....

rae

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 3:02 pm

I don’t think girls necessarily mature more when they go. Most Bais Yaakov seminaries take really good care of their girls.

I think the typical frum family is very enmeshed. For me, my girls are a team. A year in sem gives them a chance to become their own person. To think over what’s important to them away from their family.
It’s a time to see that people do things differently and that’s ok. Not everyone has the same minhagim and not every home functions the same way.
It’s a time to go away for shabbos and see how different families manage and decide what they want to take with them and what they want to leave far behind.
Most of all it’s a year to immerse themselves in kedusha and even when it wears off, parts still remain and they know what they are capable of and what they can always aspire to be.
Most of all, it teaches them to LOVE Eretz Yisroel. To have it lodge in their hearts and always always a part of them will yearn to come home. It’s not something that can be accomplished in four weeks. Love of our country seeps in slowly. It’s a gift I Daven to be able to give all my children.