Why don’t we eat kfp bread/challah

ddmom

Sun, Mar 10 2024, 10:35 am

watergirl wrote:

To my knowledge, all pesach rolls and bagels are mezonos.

The ones in hotel, no gebrokts programs are all made with potato starch and 100% shehakol!! Rolls,pasta,cookies,cakes...looks just like the real stuff. Taste ok for the most part.
The ones made with matza meal are mezonos.

amother

DarkOrange

Sun, Mar 10 2024, 10:38 am

amother OP wrote:

So many pesach recipes out there. I’m surprised no one figured out how to make something with matzah meal . Personally I only use shmura matzah meal so everything turns brownish but I would still be curious to see how it comes out.

Since I got married I don't eat gebrokts but growing up we had pesach rolls. It's nothing new. (This was maybe 35, 40 years ago). And I didn't find them more enjoyable than matza.

Pesach is just 8 days. I honestly don't understand the mentality of all the creative recipes to make rolls, pizza, pasta, etc. etc. that taste so weird. What's so wrong with enjoying the matza and potato sides for one week of your life?

watergirl

Sun, Mar 10 2024, 10:39 am

ddmom wrote:

Yes. I’m clearly referring to the matza meal ones Smile

amother

Sun, Mar 10 2024, 10:55 am

For years I wanted to experiment with something that would be similar to rolls. I never had time. Last year I decided to try a recipe that was made with potato starch. It really wasn’t good at all. Very dense. Something similar to a flopped cake. No one ate them. I heard of people making bagels but since I don’t bake with matzah meal I never tried it. Now I’m thinking that since we do eat gebrochts I could probably use shumura matzah meal. But I remember once seeing kneidlach made out of shmura matzah meal and they were dark brown! So I guess if I try for bagels or rolls they will be brown too. And no one is saying that they are really delicious… so yeah, I guess it’s not worth the effort. If anyone has any good ideas, please share.
(And why is shmura matzah meal brown but regular matzah meal is white?)

watergirl

Sun, Mar 10 2024, 10:59 am

amother OP wrote:

Shmurah matza meal is dark because it’s made with the matza they can’t sell - it’s usually burnt. Not to the point of being black but darker than the color people want to eat. This is because the nature of shmura matza is that it’s expensive, no one will want to pay all that money for light colored shmura matza meal.

The taste is almost the same as the lighter variety.

Iymnok

Sun, Mar 10 2024, 11:05 am

Experiment now with chometz matza neal?

amother

Azure

Sun, Mar 10 2024, 11:16 am

Bagels and rolls are so not in the spirit of pesach. The bread we eat on pesach is matzah. I know they’re technically allowed but isn’t this the whole idea of kitniyos?

amother

Cyan

Sun, Mar 10 2024, 11:18 am

If you want bread you'll get better results with almond flour than matzah meal.

amother

Sun, Mar 10 2024, 11:29 am

amother Cyan wrote:

If you want bread you'll get better results with almond flour than matzah meal.

That’s a good idea

tichellady

Sun, Mar 10 2024, 11:33 am

Have you been to Israel for pesach? You can buy all sorts of bread replacements. I don’t find it not in the spirit of pesach at all. It doesn’t taste like regular bread at all and I find it fun. To me, pesach isn’t about suffering and lacking/ it’s about creativity

synthy

Sun, Mar 10 2024, 11:47 am

When I did keto I made bread with whipped egg whites and almond flour. The first day it tasted amazing, maybe because I was craving bread so much, afterwards it had a bitter almond taste.

amother

Raspberry

Sun, Mar 10 2024, 12:12 pm

amother OP wrote:

Really?
What if I figure out how to make a roll out of shmura matzah meal and water? You can’t wash on it?

Do you wash on matzah meal cakes and kneidels? You don’t wash on matzah meal.

amother

Cherry

Sun, Mar 10 2024, 12:19 pm

We once arrived to the airport in Israel super early in the morning on Erev Pesach with the whole family. Our driver, who was an old friend, advised us to get something to eat before heading into Jerusalem because almost nothing was open. We went to a bakery on the first floor and they were making hot panini. We took one for everyone in our large group and as we were heading out the door noticed that they were Pesachdik but kitniyot. Since it was still early, we were able to eat them. Maybe it was because we were hungry after the flight or the novelty of getting something at the airport, but they were so good that we're still talking about them years later. My Dad sadly noted that we would not be enjoying them over Pesach.

Plonis bas Plonis

Sun, Mar 10 2024, 1:44 pm

amother Azure wrote:

Bagels and rolls are so not in the spirit of pesach. The bread we eat on pesach is matzah. I know they’re technically allowed but isn’t this the whole idea of kitniyos?

Do you even know what kitniyos is?

amother

Eggshell

Sun, Mar 10 2024, 2:43 pm

amother Azure wrote:

Bagels and rolls are so not in the spirit of pesach. The bread we eat on pesach is matzah. I know they’re technically allowed but isn’t this the whole idea of kitniyos?

No. Kitniyot are prohibited to Ashkenazim because they supposedly resemble forbidden grains and can be ground into flour that looks like wheat, barley, oat, spelt and rye flour. It's really a mar'it ayin thing; there was a fear that people would either see others using kitniyot flour and assume you could use all flour on Pesach, or people would get confused and mix up their chic-pea flour and their oat flour and inadvertently make chometz on Pesach. This is a rabbinic prohibition and not part of the original Biblical injunction, and also doesn't make a whole lot of sense, given that potato starch, which is permitted, looks a lot more like white wheat flour than mustardflour or chic-pea flour does. Sefaradim are permitted to eat kitniyot because they never accepted the Ashkenazic prohibition. Some prohibitions make no sense to me at all, like prohibiting string beans, which are essentially a green vegetable from which one cannot make flour and cannot ever resemble chometz.

"Bagels" "rolls" cakes and other baked goods made from matzah meal are an issue of gebrocht, which is a chumrah. Flour that was once moistened and baked before it could ferment cannot ferment even if it gets wet again, but those who don't eat gebrocht fear the remote possibility that a particle of flour may have escaped getting wet when the matzah was made and may therefore, at least in theory, ferment when the matzah is wet.

The issue of making Pesachdik foods that mimic chometz, even if made from potato starch, is a separate one and is not halachic, certainly not today when the ability to make such dishes is universal knowledge. I imagine that when such foods were first introduced, they were forbidden on Pesach because of mar'it ayin, the same way that pareve margarine and pareve creamers, when first introduced, had to be served in the original packaging at fleishik meals so that people would know they were not being served butter and cream. It's been well over fifty years for the creamer and longer than that for the margarine, so now your kosher caterer can serve pareve creamer in elegant unlabeled silver creamer pitchers at a fleishik banquet and nobody blinks.

Similarly, everyone knows today that everything from blintzes to brownies to pizza can be made Pesachdik, either out of matzah meal or out of potato starch, so these items are not forbidden. But if you have a hashkafic objection to the idea of "phony chometz" and prefer matzah and potatoes, rather than matzah meal and potato strach, to be your source of carbohydrates on Pesach, more power to you.

amother

Phlox

Sun, Mar 10 2024, 3:46 pm

amother Azure wrote:

Bagels and rolls are so not in the spirit of pesach. The bread we eat on pesach is matzah. I know they’re technically allowed but isn’t this the whole idea of kitniyos?

Hard cruncy matzah is probably less in the spirit of pesach than matza meal rolls. The soft matza that some sefardim eat is more authentic than the half burnt hand matza so many yidden eat.

I make matza meal rolls and pancakes like my grandmother made. Not a new invention. They don't taste or look exactly like regular bread they taste uniquely pesachdik to me and bring back wonderful memories.

Pesach is not supposed to be a week of suffering and eating unpapatable foods.

pause

Sun, Mar 10 2024, 5:18 pm

amother Raspberry wrote:

Do you wash on matzah meal cakes and kneidels? You don’t wash on matzah meal.

If you're kovea seuda on it, there's room for it be hamotzi. AYLOR

amother

Azure

Sun, Mar 10 2024, 11:38 pm

Plonis bas Plonis wrote:

Do you even know what kitniyos is?

Yes of course, do you understand why kitniyos was forbidden? Because certain flours and legumes can resemble wheat flour. Kal vachomer what rolls and bagels look like todays days.

zaq

Mon, Mar 11 2024, 3:28 pm

amother Azure wrote:

Yes of course, do you understand why kitniyos was forbidden? Because certain flours and legumes can resemble wheat flour. Kal vachomer what rolls and bagels look like todays days.

Which brings up the question of why potato starch is permitted.

Elfrida

Mon, Mar 11 2024, 4:30 pm

zaq wrote:

Which brings up the question of why potato starch is permitted.

Because potatoes were not introduced to the Western world until very ma y years after this takana was made.

The Chayei Adam argues that potatoes should be included in the category of kitniyot.