What's a reasonable consequence ?

bakingmom

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 5:54 pm

amother OP wrote:

I'm stunned by all responses and pls answer honestly. Are your vitamins home locked up? Your detergents? Your knives? And pls answer honestly as well. If your five year old was up every other morning at five would you start your day then ? And on days that he's up four thirty would you stay up too? Even if I'm the past two years he's never done anything dangerous and this time too? He only played with it ... Isn't this worth a well rested calm mom? A mom not functioning cause was up with nursing baby at night and woken four thirty can be dangerous too! emotionally for sure... I'm wondering if the people posting here actually do what they suggest....

/I really get the 'my kids get up too early, and I need sleep to function', please dont think I'm being un-understanding or unsympathetic, my kids used to get up super early too. My doors all had locks on, so when my kids were up early the only place they could play was the playroom.
I'm not judging you - we learn from the first time our kids do things that we did not realise they could do, but the only reasonable consequence should be a consequence for you - you now need to take steps to make your house safer because the kids can get to more things than you thought. It cn be a teaching moment - the kitchen has lots of things that are not safe so in order to protect you I am putting a lock but its not a punishment consequence.

Sending hugs, its a hard stage Hug

amother

Bisque

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 6:02 pm

amother OP wrote:

My husband goes downstairs with the first kid to wake up, often as early as 4:30, sets kids up with something to do,and crashes on the couch until normal hour, but is available if they start making trouble. My 3 year old is baby gated upstairs until a parent can come down with her (5 year old can let herself out though)

Dolly Welsh

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 6:03 pm

Your kids are getting more mobile, which the climbing onto the counter shows.

Next stop: turning on the stove. Just to see the pretty flames. And, because they KNOW, as you SAY, they aren't supposed to.

Your kids are getting into the thrill of doing things they aren't supposed to do. Part of growing up.

That is how kids are. Some more, some less, but they are all kids. "Don't trust them," my pediatrician used to say.

I don't know how to handle this, but this isn't a good situation. Maybe another family member can watch them in the early morning. Maybe you can finagle a way to get a half hour nap in the afternoon, when they are in school or something, to make up for you having to get up when they get up.

One way or another, kitchens and bathrooms are not safe rooms for children when no adult is looking right at them.

They might figure out how to actually leave the house. Just for laughs. Exactly because they aren't supposed to.

You don't have bad kids. They are normal kids.

But they are living in the dream world known as childhood. They just plain have no idea. One minute they do, all wise and sensible, and the next minute they are singing along with unicorn songs and they think unicorns are real.

I sympathize with you, but I am concerned.

amother

Raspberry

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 6:34 pm

~~You need to beat your son until he understands what he did was wrong~~
This reminds me of an active nephew of mine probably a little older at the time (6?) - brought a chair to the counter, climbed up onto the counter - put a smaller chair on the counter, to get to the top cabinet, to get some chocolate from the top of cabinet. This was a 4 am when he woke up!
You will never be able to prevent everything. Obviously you will need to make things more out of reach, more secure, but other than teaching what they can / cant do, and tell them off when they do things that are wrong, you just need to show them love with all that. And realize that you cant wrap them in cotton wool the whole time, they will make mistakes which they will need to clean up.

lamplighter

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 6:53 pm

I did have kids who woke up at 4:30-5:00 for a good 2 years I had to wake up at this crazy hour.
We figured it out. They came into our room, one of us went to living room resting on the couch while the child played. Sometimes my husband took the child in the stroller and went for a run.

Kids will be kids, they didn't do something crazy, totally normal and BH not too dangerous. They have to clean up the mess and you can explain to them that it's dangerous to climb and touch medicines. But they are little, talk means nothing really. Locks and a parent taking them away from playing with these things reinforces it.

No mother is perfect. Kids get hurt and make crazy mess even with supervision but we still need to do our part. People die in car accidents but you still insist on seatbelts.

Imagine CV a child really hurt themselves, left the house, swallowed medicine and they were hospitalized, you realize you would be completely liable and possibly have CPS after you if they knew you were sleeping while this happened.

amother

Peachpuff

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 8:53 pm

When my kids would wake up at 4:30 in the morning, id bring toys and books into tgeir room, and sleep on a sleeping bag or mattress either inside their room by the door or right outside their room in the hallway.
Not ideal at all
But I'd get a catnap that way, and id know that they were in a safe place (their child safe bedroom) with toys, and that they couldn't leave without waking me up.

Yes, I'd wake up and the room was often a tornado of Lego and shredded paper and who knows what else.
But they were all safe

notshanarishona

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 9:14 pm

amother OP wrote:

My son used to regularly start his day at 5, it was really hard but we worked it out with alternating who would wake up with him. A toddler isn’t old enough to use judgement. My 4 year old has tried to go outside himself before.

amother

IndianRed

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 9:50 pm

OP, I really do get you. For a while my husband and I took turns getting up early with the kids. We worked really hard to train them to follow their color clock and stay in their room until an appropriate time to wake us up. It worked for a while, and then our oldest (now 4.5) started coming out regardless, she was just too bored in her room. We learned the hard way- we had to install locks on the nosh and cereal cabinets because it was just too tempting for her. We had to lock the fridge and put the tub of diaper cream up high when she put chocolate syrup into the diaper cream one day, or smeared diaper cream onto her toys.
And like you pointed out, sometimes their messes have nothing to do with you sleeping in- I was upstairs feeding the baby once for 5 min and the older two climbed up to the table and overturned an entire container of salt on the table and floor and squeezed out ketchup into the mess...

I break it down like this: my job is to lock away anything unsafe or valuable, and then to recognize that anything else is totally at risk of getting wrecked unless my kids are under supervision every minute of the day, which is impossible. So when my kids inevitably make a mess or break things, I need to stay calm and focus on helping them understand that I'm not furious, I understand why it was tempting for them, but I'm disappointed and they need to make better choices. I'm not a fan of completely absolving them of guilt because "they're just kids" - they're still old enough to know good and well they were doing something wrong, it was just too fun for them to resist but I still believe they need to learn how to start controlling themselves and resist. At the very least, they should see very clearly that I'm not happy that they made this mess, they need to help clean it up, and we probably won't have time for some other fun thing that was on our schedule cuz we had to spend time cleaning instead, or they can't have whatever it was they wrecked, because they wrecked it- I'm not going to just replace it.

Long story short, there should be a consequence, but something connected that makes sense and is not overboard, and they should get the feeling that of course you still love them, but you are disappointed and expect better. And then you need to go around and make sure you lock up anything valuable even if you think it's out of reach.

OP, I'm in the trenches with you! Wishing us both lots of luck : )

amother

Coral

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 10:02 pm

amother OP wrote:

so you've prob missed the post where I wrote vitamins were high up child climbed up.

One of the responsibilities of being a parent is understanding that as children grow, their accessibility to danger evolves and it is OUR job to anticipate it before they think of doing it for the first time, your story is a classic example. You take safety actions before baby rolls over on the changing table "for the first time", before your toddler climbs up a chair near the Shabbos urn, before your young child runs into the street etc.
The fact that they have never done it before doesn't mean it can't, and you need to keep re-assessing what they can do and take the appropriate actions as a responsible parent to prevent that possibility.
Besides that, a five and a three year olds should never be left unattended. You asked about a bathroom break - you know that isn't the same as napping, and even for that time span your house needs to be a safe place for your kids - that is on you.

This isn't meant to bash you, OP, but listen to the imas here. Just like our children, we are learning as parents of growing children. You now know what you weren't aware of before, luckily the consequence of this lesson wasn't catastrophic this time, learn as a mother and move on from this point.

amother

Dimgray

Tue, Apr 09 2024, 1:00 am

There are two separate issues here. There is the mess issue and the danger issue.

The mess - through trial and error kids learn that when they make a mess they will have to clean it up. Although some people on here disagree with my method, when my kids make a mess they need to clean it up before moving onto the next activity and sometimes they miss out on something fun we were going to do because cleanup took up that time.

The danger - the issue is here kids can’t learn from experience. It’s too dangerous. You are lucky they didn’t drink a bottle of Motrin. Not a risk you want to take again.

What works for us is we have child safety devices that don’t let the kids into closets that have cleaning supplies, tools, the entire kitchen, medicines ect.
The parts of the house they can get to are completely childproof so if they do make a mess we can teach them not to in the future without the danger of vitimins, meds, or dangerous things…

amother

Wheat

Tue, Apr 09 2024, 5:55 am

OP, I'm just as stunned as you are by the reactionary responses.
You asked for a consequence idea to make sure you aren't overreacting, and in response, you are accused of negligence and cruelty.

Yes, this is age appropriate behavior.
Yes, you could put a safety lock on for the future.

But also, it's totally appropriate that a simple consequence might help teach your children.

When my twins were 4 or 5 they unlocked the door and left the house without permission early one morning while I was sleeping. They were given a small lecture and placed in timeout for four minutes. (They had to sit on the couch and think about their actions and then say sorry. ) they never did it again.

I shared this story with plenty of people in real life, and no one thought it appropriate to lecture me about how irresponsible I am and how I really should be the one being punished.

This place is weird.

Don't beat yourself up.
It's ok to show your children by your reaction that what they did was completely unacceptable. And yes you are right.
You can't guarantee that you'll always be right there or awake every second your kids are awake. You can't prevent every dangerous thing. Sometimes they'll do something you didn't expect. Sure, lock up things that they get into. But there's nothing wrong with an age appropriate consequence.

amother

Forestgreen

Tue, Apr 09 2024, 6:23 am

Contrary to most opinions here I don’t think there’s anything wrong with sleeping when your kids are awake at that age if they are generally safe kids, I would probably limit them to their room or a playroom. Wouldn’t want them wandering the house when I was sleeping I would also definitely lock up medication, I also keep child locks on all cleaning supplies at least put all medication in your room so if you’re sleeping, you would know if they get into it . I would also probably put a baby monitor so that I can hear if something is wrong. I would have strict rules about what they can do and where they can go when I am sleeping. I would reward them for following these rules.

realsilver

Tue, Apr 09 2024, 6:32 am

I'm as stunned as above poster. Gosh were all human. And I never saw a house as child proofed as the ones you all describe.
Shomer pesaim hashem- I do my best to keep my house safe but kids are creative and there's a limit to how much you could be ahead of the game. And I trust Hashem will protect them, ( after taking all the basic and necessary precautions!) we always say there's a malach protecting each child every second of the day- otherwise they would literally be in danger all day...

Guilt is not a Jewish mida. Sorry guys. Yes, you can say how can I do better, but don't give yourself a consequence lol. And yes you can give your kids, forsure 5 year old, a mini consequence to show him out shouldn't happen again. ( It's probably him more than 3 year old to be honest)

lamplighter

Tue, Apr 09 2024, 8:00 am

My whole house isn't locked up either and kids make messes and sometimes do dangerous things, none of that is on her. Sleeping with kids that age up and about and then getting upset that they got into trouble, that's her consequence. I have friends who sleep in shabbos morning and they know it's gonna be a wreck when they get up, they make sure things are safe, have a child a bit older "supervise" and then they accept that this is worth it for sleep. When they get up, they have the kids clean up with them and move on.

I personally have never let kids that age be up without supervision because I don't think it's safe and it's not a risk I'm willing to take. I've had kids attempt all kinds of dangerous things with me around so I am not comfortable thinking that kids supervise themselves (especially in groups/more than one under 8). I have had to take kids to the ER and been questioned about where I was. Accidents happen but I can do my best to prevent them. Like wear a seatbelt or be awake.

I get it, not everyone feels the way I do. I don't consider myself a helicopter parent at all but maybe I am. The lack of acknowledgement that this issue (and risk) is on her is what threw everyone off.

At no point did OP acknowledge her responsibility in all this or absurdity of her question- what's their consequence- as opposed to how do I prevent this from happening or omg my kids got into vitamins by climbing counters what do I do - this incites amothers to keep reminding her of her responsibility.

amother

Cadetblue

Tue, Apr 09 2024, 9:13 am

amother Wheat wrote:

I disagree. It's not a one time thing that OP's little kids were unsupervised. It is the regular everyday arrangement that a 3&5 year old are left unsupervised, and that is negligent.
Would you have the same reaction if the kids would touch knives or fire & get seriously hurt ch'v? I don't think so.
Sometimes, the first time kids do something, is one time too many ch'v.
OP was sure that they wouldn't get to the vitamins, but they did. Little kids need to be supervised.
OP is putting the blame of her negligence on her little kids, and is refusing to take responsibility and recognize that it's wrong on her part.