Is this normal? Response after messing up

amother

Wed, May 01 2024, 1:12 am

I'm totally changing the details so please no nitpicking on the specifics - I'm wondering about the reaction, not the specific behavior/consequence. I feel like I would have been more rational as a teen but it's been a long time and maybe that's just me.

So let's say for false example, I have a rule that DD (15) can use my iPad for specific apps/websites. Obviously if she violates those limits I'm not going to let her use my iPad. So one day I find out that she took my iPad in middle of the night without me knowing at the time and visited some questionable websites - nothing terrible, but the sneaking around rather than approaching it together makes it worse. I tell her clearly that I'm very upset about this and she's losing her iPad privileges until I decide how to further address it.

The very next day she asks to use the iPad. I said no. She kept asking and asking, whining, the word "why" came up a lot which is the most confusing to me because how is it not clear by now exactly why we're not cool with the iPad?

Then it was yom tov, so obviously nobody is using any iPads and also we shelved the discussion. The minute yom tov was over she was back at it. First she asked, but I said no, I'm still not ready to move past the breach of trust from when she took it without permission and did questionable things with it. She continued to ask, I continued to say no, she got whinier and whinier, there was why again, and crying how unfair it all is and how she has nothing to do without it etc etc (again I am not looking for ideas of what a child can do without an iPad. There is no iPad. I'm drawing what I think is a good parallel.)

To clarify, I did not engage in any arguing or conversation during these episodes. I stated my piece, which was that she had violated my iPad boundaries and therefore is not allowed to use it until further notice, and after that all I said was repeatedly no, do not ask me again, I will let you know when I'm ready to talk about it, no, do not ask me again.

So first of all, does "why" not mean "why" anymore? Because I think it's very obvious why she is receiving this consequence for this action and the question sounds very stupid.

Secondly the amount of protesting the consequence, is this normal? Because I feel like if you see your parents are this upset about something, you maybe realize you should wait until they cool down a little before you try again. The escalating whining and begging and crying and why-ing seem like really bad strategy especially if you see it's not working.

I just need a reality check here. Is my child actually stupid or crazy, or is this still within the range of "teenagers are like that and it doesn't need to make sense"?

amother

Maroon

Wed, May 01 2024, 1:27 am

Nope this sounds normal. And my dd will get all sulky when I enforce a consequence that she was warned multiple times about. But just keep strong. She threatens to go to her friends family when she's mad. I humor her by telling her to ask if she can join.

amother

Starflower

Wed, May 01 2024, 1:36 am

My 16 year old would do exactly this.

And this wouldn't be a mashal. It is the nimshal...

Why and nudging and tantrums for every single boundary I try to enforce.

It makes me so exhausted I wonder if it is really worth it.
But then I remember the children that have no clue about boundaries and it makes me cringe so there.

dankbar

Wed, May 01 2024, 1:42 am

One thing sprung out at me.....if you're sure it was this teenager who used in mid of Night? Maybe that's why they don't understand the sudden changes.....

amother

Burgundy

Wed, May 01 2024, 1:43 am

I do think it would be fair and more effective if the consequence had an exact time like 3 days or 1 week

amother

Starflower

Wed, May 01 2024, 2:04 am

amother Burgundy wrote:

I do think it would be fair and more effective if the consequence had an exact time like 3 days or 1 week

In principle this is true.

But sometimes, when they do an unexpected thing like taking the iPad and using it in middle of the night, it takes me more time to regroup and decide how I want to proceed.

I don't have a black and white strategy for every behavior.

amother

Wed, May 01 2024, 2:05 am

You're right, it's not helpful that there isn't a specific end time right now. We were blindsided by what happened and not ready with a consequence except "you messed up and the privilege is off." Also there was another person or people involved so we want to coordinate with the other parents to decide how to best address it going forward.

Yes it is absolutely clear that this teen did exactly what she did, and she knows it, and she knows we know it.

I guess I feel like when I was a kid I would have been like "whoops I just got busted big time, lucky to be alive, hope it blows over soon" rather than whyyyyyy. Like are you not embarrassed that you got caught red handed? Maybe feel a little shame before you start on whyyyyy? Her response is making me less and less inclined to lighten up or go easy which I might have considered if she came into the interaction with a bit more humility. But if you don't even get that you messed up and need to take the consequence, then maybe it's not strong enough. I don't know but this is very confusing to me.

amother

Firebrick

Wed, May 01 2024, 2:12 am

Sounds within the normal range. I would specifically not put an expected end time to the consequence. Right now there's no trust. The end time will be when you feel like you and she have worked together to rebuild trust.

amother

Mustard

Wed, May 01 2024, 2:14 am

OP, Agree with you 100%.
Unfortunately this is normal for todays teens.
I think we had a certain level of fear when it came to our parents. Not the bad kind of fair that I’ll get my head bashes in but a certain healthy level of fear that made us be ashamed if we were caught and scared of consequences. Not sure how this got lost in generations…
That said can you sit down with her and share some of your thoughts with her? If she’s truly 15 is there a reason why you can’t say something like I really don’t understand why you keep asking why when you know exactly why. We had a deal and you broke the deal. Instead of apologizing you are nagging me about it which is honestly confusing to me. If makes me feel like you aren’t sorry about this and are likely to do it again which kind of makes me not want to give it back to you for a long while. Can you help me understand this?

amother

Wed, May 01 2024, 2:20 am

Hopefully we will be able to have that conversation sometime... Right now I can't even start with all the whining and begging and insistence that I'm ruining her life. It's taking all my patience to keep saying "no is still no, you need to get out of my face and stop asking now." I had to kick her out of my bedroom close to midnight!

I guess it is true overall that there is less "fear" in this generation. I'm a little old school in my style but I think today's kids just don't get it. I see it in my next kid too, she's not behaving like this at all but I can see already that when I start using an authoritative tone she looks at me like I'm a bit of a joke.

amother

Cerise

Wed, May 01 2024, 2:54 am

My pre-teen is like this.

Because there is no defined end point, they hope that if they just keep asking that you will give it back.

Sometimes I tell my dd that I took it away as a consequence and I will decide when she has earned it back, and in the meantime, for each time she asks if she can have it (starting with the next time she asks), I will keep it for an extra day. That usually removes the repeated incessant never ending requests for it.

amother

Chestnut

Wed, May 01 2024, 3:15 am

Lol I literally just had this with my son.

He lost screen privileges for a set amount of time because he got physical in a fight with his younger brother.

He went on for hours about why he got punished and not his brother. Um dude, your brother is half your size, half your weight, several years younger, and you hit him first. Stop acting stupid and go pick on someone your own size. You know exactly why you got the consequence and he didnt. And this was after many many many warnings that if he gets physical, he will get punished.

Hes still kvetching about it a few days later acting shocked that I actually followed through on my warning. Hes a brilliant boy, top student, and excellent social skills but hes acting like he has no clue what happened here. You would think hes got an IQ problem with the way hes acting about this and im so over it. Im not going to change or reduce the punishment if he continues whining so for all our sakes, I wish he would just stop it already.

salt

Wed, May 01 2024, 3:34 am

Would it help to respond with "you know why" or "you tell me why" - or would that just aggravate?

I think best to put an end date to the punishment/consequence - not fair to continue saying that you haven't decided yet indefinitely.

worknights1313

Wed, May 01 2024, 3:45 am

Pretty normal. As others have said, having an end date is a good idea. Just remember, don’t give in to the arguments and whining. That will set your child up for worse behavior.

ora_43

Wed, May 01 2024, 5:12 am

amother OP wrote:

Her response is making me less and less inclined to lighten up or go easy which I might have considered if she came into the interaction with a bit more humility.

I'd tell her this. Maybe not right away but at some point. It's a natural response and it's an important lesson.

In general - I think it's normal for kids, inc teens, to push and whine and "whhhyyyy" to the extent they think they can get away with it.

JMHO but at some point I'd say, "if you keep bothering me about this, it's going to be an extra day without the ipad for each 'why'". Being deliberately annoying about the ipad is like taking the ipad without permission in the first place - it's a bad behavior that they're doing for the logical reason that it might get them something they want. And the solution is the same - make it clear that it's not an effective strategy, because it will give them less ipad access not more.

Comptroller

Wed, May 01 2024, 6:28 am

Op, you got it, 100%
"Why" does not mean "why" but "I don't agree" and "I want you to review your decision".

The whole arguing is typical. They have their interests - you have your interests... they try. Natural. You have to hold up strong, and maybe you can avoid the discussion if you start singing or whateve.

amother

Tiffanyblue

Wed, May 01 2024, 7:02 am

Screens make our kids meshugga. Taking it away is like taking away their food and drink. They'll fight forever to get it back.

zaq

Wed, May 01 2024, 8:52 am

She's a typical teen. They are not famed for rational behavior. She knows perfectly well why; she's just trying to see if she can get what she wants anyway. You did just as you ought.

ittsamother

Wed, May 01 2024, 9:01 am

amother Tiffanyblue wrote:

Screens make our kids meshugga. Taking it away is like taking away their food and drink. They'll fight forever to get it back.

True but irrelevant to this conversation cuz OP made it clear there's no iPad, that was just a stand-in for the real cause of the conflict, for privacy.

amother

Tiffanyblue

Wed, May 01 2024, 9:15 am

ittsamother wrote:

True but irrelevant to this conversation cuz OP made it clear there's no iPad, that was just a stand-in for the real cause of the conflict, for privacy.

I'm guessing it's something similar enough. Also some of the responses were about screens and I was referring to those.