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Forum
-> Inquiries & Offers
-> Israel related Inquiries & Aliyah Questions
joonabug
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 Fri, May 03 2024, 12:24 pm
im reading the other thread now and im seeing so many people say things like "find me a job", "find me a community", "find my kids schools" etc. I understand its really not so pashut to just pick up with big kids and move to another country, really I get that. but I just think everyone should really reflect for a little and think about how much do they really care to live in EY. obviously now most people cant just pick up and move, but what happened when you were a newlywed? I get that its hard to leave your whole family, and that its a hard transition, and that its hard to find a job, no one said any of this was easy, but its doable, and if it was important you would do it, or at the very least try to make it happen. also, how many people here are encouraging their newlywed children to move to EY? I cant answer these questions for anyone else but I just hate all the excuses. Believe it or not, there are houses, cars, jobs, schools, healthcare and everything else a person needs to live, in EY. ofc its hard, and it might be too late for many of us but its not too late for some of us and not too late for our children.
btw I am living in EY and I moved when I got married and trust me it wasn't easy and I have no family here and I miss them so much but I really feel what I am doing is the most emes and iyH Hashem should help and BezH I will have made this difficult step that will benefit all of my future descendants.
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amother
Olive
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Fri, May 03 2024, 12:27 pm
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It's shabbos there. Why start a new thread saying the exact same thing as the last thread?
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amother
Bellflower
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Fri, May 03 2024, 12:30 pm
R Moshe Feinstein held that one does not hv an obligation to live there.
We are in golus.
Many people have said this on the other thread so I will repeat this here as well. If there's even a tiny hardship to move there even if it's because you're away from your family, or you don't know the language they speak then you are not obligated to push yourself.
Some people push themselves to give more tzedaka. Others push to conquer bad middos. And others to live in Israel.
It's not mitzvah #1.
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amother
White
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Fri, May 03 2024, 12:31 pm
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I think that you’re right when you say if people thought it was very important to move to EY right now, they would. I don’t think everybody believes like that. How do you know that is what we’re supposed to do? I think that when Mashiach comes, the Jews will be gathered from all parts of the earth. Maybe moving to EY now would be premature. Who said that’s what Hashem wants? Convince me to move. What is your proof that we should be doing that?
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joonabug
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Fri, May 03 2024, 12:36 pm
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yeah I guess you guys are right that if people dont care to move or want to move, then they wont regardless if they could make it work But then just admit it that you just dont care to move and thats it. I hate all the excuses.
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joonabug
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Fri, May 03 2024, 12:38 pm
| amother Olive wrote: | | It's shabbos there. Why start a new thread saying the exact same thing as the last thread? |
well its not shabbos in america and the people in america are the ones who I am writing this for
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amother
Anemone
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Fri, May 03 2024, 12:38 pm
| joonabug wrote: | im reading the other thread now and im seeing so many people say things like "find me a job", "find me a community", "find my kids schools" etc. I understand its really not so pashut to just pick up with big kids and move to another country, really I get that. but I just think everyone should really reflect for a little and think about how much do they really care to live in EY. obviously now most people cant just pick up and move, but what happened when you were a newlywed? I get that its hard to leave your whole family, and that its a hard transition, and that its hard to find a job, no one said any of this was easy, but its doable, and if it was important you would do it, or at the very least try to make it happen. also, how many people here are encouraging their newlywed children to move to EY? I cant answer these questions for anyone else but I just hate all the excuses. Believe it or not, there are houses, cars, jobs, schools, healthcare and everything else a person needs to live, in EY. ofc its hard, and it might be too late for many of us but its not too late for some of us and not too late for our children.
btw I am living in EY and I moved when I got married and trust me it wasn't easy and I have no family here and I miss them so much but I really feel what I am doing is the most emes and iyH Hashem should help and BezH I will have made this difficult step that will benefit all of my future descendants. |
No-one has anything against living in ey, even if they aren't living there. Plenty people can't make aliyah even if they want to, there are many things to take into account before taking such a step.
It's the attitude of 'make aliyah otherwise it means you don't want Mashiach, don't have Emunah and such comments that people don't like.
And the reasons people give are just that, reasons. Not excuses.
ETA: The 'find me a job' and find me a community' comments are sarcasm.
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amother
Bellflower
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Fri, May 03 2024, 12:39 pm
| joonabug wrote: | | yeah I guess you guys are right that if people dont care to move or want to move, then they wont regardless if they could make it work But then just admit it that you just dont care to move and thats it. I hate all the excuses. |
I don't care to move. I don't like the way the country is set up to live. Nothing to do with loving EY. This is abt how the govt & current systems are. As soon as we have the money we will buy an apartment there and we will go for yt etc, but I don't want to educate my kids there or to shop there or live there ft as is now.
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amother
Anemone
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Fri, May 03 2024, 12:43 pm
| joonabug wrote: | | yeah I guess you guys are right that if people dont care to move or want to move, then they wont regardless if they could make it work But then just admit it that you just dont care to move and thats it. I hate all the excuses. |
People do say that.
I've said on the other threads that I don't want to make aliyah, even giving the reasons why (although I don't owe anyone an explanation) but I'm told in no uncertain terms that I'm 1000% wrong!!
I'm told it's 'just excuses', but they're not, they're valid reasons. Very valid.
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amother
Lilac
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Fri, May 03 2024, 12:47 pm
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Yeah, sometimes when I see excuses like - I would move but I love my mentor here, or - I would move but my kids like to watch clips and wear sneakers…. Etc, I try to picture a polish Jew saying these things in 1938 and it sounds ridiculously laughable. We probably aren’t at a 1938 yet. But by the time we do reach those days, it may very well be too late.
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amother
Brown
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Fri, May 03 2024, 12:51 pm
It is very important to me to live in Eretz Yisrael. Both our rav and our teen's therapist have told us it would be a disaster for her. I also have a kid with special needs who will not be able to learn Hebrew and will have an extraordinaliry difficult time adapting to the change,and will likely lose quite a bit of functioning at least temporarily in the struggle to adapt, at a pivotal time of life.
Do you still think if I cared enough I would go? This is actually my story. And many many people have similar stories. You can't judge.
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amother
Dill
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Fri, May 03 2024, 12:52 pm
| joonabug wrote: | | well its not shabbos in america and the people in america are the ones who I am writing this for |
Don't you live in Israel? I assume you're currently not Israel, as it's shabbos in Israel now.
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amother
Dill
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Fri, May 03 2024, 12:55 pm
We love Israel. We support Israel. We daven for Israel. We visit Israel.
But don't feel the need to live in Israel and we cannot live in Israel at the moment. We can be good jews & love Israel, have emunah, and want moshiach, even if we don't live in Israel.
We will live in Israel in the right time, when moshiach will come & it will be our true home.
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amother
Olive
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Fri, May 03 2024, 12:57 pm
| joonabug wrote: | | well its not shabbos in america and the people in america are the ones who I am writing this for |
Way to deflect.
That wasn't my question.
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joonabug
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Fri, May 03 2024, 1:04 pm
| amother Dill wrote: | | Don't you live in Israel? I assume you're currently not Israel, as it's shabbos in Israel now. | .
in america rn for my BILs wedding
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amother
Olive
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Fri, May 03 2024, 1:05 pm
| joonabug wrote: | im reading the other thread now and im seeing so many people say things like "find me a job", "find me a community", "find my kids schools" etc. I understand its really not so pashut to just pick up with big kids and move to another country, really I get that. but I just think everyone should really reflect for a little and think about how much do they really care to live in EY. obviously now most people cant just pick up and move, but what happened when you were a newlywed? I get that its hard to leave your whole family, and that its a hard transition, and that its hard to find a job, no one said any of this was easy, but its doable, and if it was important you would do it, or at the very least try to make it happen. also, how many people here are encouraging their newlywed children to move to EY? I cant answer these questions for anyone else but I just hate all the excuses. Believe it or not, there are houses, cars, jobs, schools, healthcare and everything else a person needs to live, in EY. ofc its hard, and it might be too late for many of us but its not too late for some of us and not too late for our children.
btw I am living in EY and I moved when I got married and trust me it wasn't easy and I have no family here and I miss them so much but I really feel what I am doing is the most emes and iyH Hashem should help and BezH I will have made this difficult step that will benefit all of my future descendants. |
I feel what I am doing in America is most Emes, and I don't need Israelis to approve or endorse it.
There is no such thing as "too late" to move there. All Jews will be gathered to there when moshiach comes. Perfect timing.
It's not about it being hard or too hard.
It's NOT PRACTICAL OR REALISTIC.
Whoever truly thinks all Jews must live there, would be bending over backwards to find us jobs, housing, schools, etc. So how much do you truly think all Jews should live there? Prove yourselves.
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joonabug
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Fri, May 03 2024, 1:06 pm
well your question was why did I start a thread saying the same thing as the last thread and my answer is, read my post, im not saying the same thing.
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amother
White
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Fri, May 03 2024, 1:08 pm
| joonabug wrote: | | yeah I guess you guys are right that if people dont care to move or want to move, then they wont regardless if they could make it work But then just admit it that you just dont care to move and thats it. I hate all the excuses. |
It’s a difficult move for many people that is what the “excuses” convey. It’s a big lifestyle change. It might even be an irresponsible move if you can’t make a living there . Why would people do it if they are not certain that it’s the right thing to do? If you believe 100 percent it’s right, yes people would make it work.
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amother
Brown
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Fri, May 03 2024, 1:10 pm
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Tachlis- there is a real machlokes about whether the obligation/draw is significant enough to risk poverty, mental health and/or the yiddishkeit of kids/family members in difficult stages. This is not simple.
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amother
Steel
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Fri, May 03 2024, 1:13 pm
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How is this a spin off? This is the exact discussion as the other thread. What am I missing?
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