Marrying A Niece | Imamother

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Marrying A Niece

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gold21

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:35 am

yes except its not the olden days anymore. marriages are so different than they once were. we are on a very different level now.

gold21

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:37 am

yes except its not the olden days anymore. marriages are so different than they once were. we are on a very different level now.

gold21

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:37 am

yes except its not the olden days anymore. marriages are so different than they once were. we are on a very different level now.

chatz

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:38 am

gold21 wrote:

ruchel I edited my post before you posted. I know its halachically ok. but as I wrote above, maybe the time has come to change that, similar to the decree by Rabbeinu Gershom to end marriages with multiple wives.

Today's non Jewish society has an effect on our thinking.

If an uncle & niece are similar in age - what's wrong with their getting married? (assuming compatibility)

Although I really can't imagine DH getting another wife. That does have me Shaking

- so I guess I'm judgmental too Wink

Isramom8

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:42 am

Oh, uncles always flirt with their nieces - I think that seeing them as "real girls" rather than "like daughters" is rather natural.

So, Sarah is her own sister in law, and Avraham is his own nephew!

I met a woman whose last name was "Ploni". I asked if she was related to a different woman whose last name was "Ploni". She said they were sisters. But they were both married, so I asked how that could be. She said they married two brothers. I said that in that case, she should have said, 'She's my sister in law."

gold21

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:46 am

really isramom? how odd. my uncles certainly never flirted with me. theyre my uncles for G-d's sake! and what, do you think I should have flirted with my first cousins too? do you ppl not see that society is different now and we are not quite on the levels of avraham and sarah? or do you equate us chas vesholom? hello. this is a different time. marrying a niece is weird and not cool.

amother

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:49 am

Ruchel wrote:

In my maternal grandmother's family, cousin marriage was a rule (but niece/uncle was done too) that she was the first to break for like 500 years.

In my chassidishe sides, there was no "rule" but such marriages were common (cousins) and not so rare (uncle niece).

I noticed the original Chabad chassidim also almost exclusively married cousins.

This was always a common practice back in the day, since people lived in shetlach and either they didnt know about genetic issues that could result in it, or there werent too many people around so they chose from what there was. Today when the world got so much smaller and we know people all over the world, this practice is a lot less common. My great grandparents on one side were 3rd cousins and another set were 2nd cousins so it mustve been fairly common in the early 20th century. Recently a 3rd cousin was redt for a family member and s/o advised against it, citing that there are many more people around now so it's not necessary as a first choice.

They also say that uncle/neice is healthier genetically than first cousins believe it or not. I have an uncle several yrs older than me and it was always a joke. DH is the youngest and has a neice several yrs younger than him. I dont think it was ever a thought beyond the theoretical joke in either case!!

gold21

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:49 am

you know what, on that note, why dont we marry off our 3 year olds, like rivkah? why dont men marry two sisters, like yaakov, rochel, and leah? why dont sons get involved in their parents intimate affairs, like reuven, yaakov, and leah with reuven moving yaakov's bed? because its a different time. if you dont see that you are fooling yourself.

Last edited by gold21 on Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total

Ruchel

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:50 am

gold21 wrote:

If it changes, then it will be something else. In the mean time, it's not changed.

I personally don't care for being cool or weird, if that's my minhag or simply something I'm allowed to do. If my uncle was my bashert I would have married him.

As for flirting uncles, THAT is wrong.

saw50st8

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:50 am

Ew at uncles viewing their nieces s-xually.

I personally think family shouldn't marry family. If you know how you are related, stay away.

Ruchel

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:51 am

gold21 wrote:

There's a lot more to these stories. We can't read straight from the Bible without Talmud and all.
We also cannot compare ourselves to the avos and imaos.

Ruchel

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:53 am

Isramom8 wrote:

I met a woman whose last name was "Ploni". I asked if she was related to a different woman whose last name was "Ploni". She said they were sisters. But they were both married, so I asked how that could be. She said they married two brothers. I said that in that case, she should have said, 'She's my sister in law."

My grandma's grandfathers are brothers and her grandmothers are sisters. Common practice.

gold21

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:54 am

you know its still halachically allowed to marry off a 3 year old. no? I dont believe that halacha has changed. so nu? my son is three and a half, I should get moving, no?

gold21

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:56 am

ruchel my point is exactly that. lets not compare ourselves to the avos and imahos. this is a different time. thats what I was saying.

amother

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:56 am

It wasnt flirting uncles; it was more like other family members posing it as a theoretical suggestion. IN both cases uncles got married way before neices were available/in shidduchim. Calm down, not every suggestion was meant in a s-xual way, it was more like a superficial 'what if' that no one took seriously. Stop having a dirty mind about everything!!

gold21

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:57 am

2 sisters marrying 2 brothers is perfectly normal.

Isramom8

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:58 am

Gold, I also think it's denying reality to say that an uncle and niece, or first cousins, cannot be naturally be attracted to each other. I know frum first cousins who were very much in love and married a few years ago.

At Har Sinai (or where was it?) Klal Yisrael were "bochim lemishpechosam" - crying for their families - because Hashem had given them the prohibition against siblings marrying each other. We were very upset to hear that.

Ruchel

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:58 am

gold21 wrote:

you know its still halachically allowed to marry off a 3 year old. no? I dont believe that halacha has changed. so nu? my son is three and a half, I should get moving, no?

No. The girl has to be 12, with period (I think) and willing.

But rabbinical guidelines are much different, and include dina de malchusa dina.

gold21

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:59 am

amother what are you saying, a person viewing their spouse s-xually is dirty? wow, great outlook on marriage, have you considered becoming a kallah teacher?

Ruchel

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:00 pm

gold21 wrote:

ruchel my point is exactly that. lets not compare ourselves to the avos and imahos. this is a different time. thats what I was saying.

So then what's wrong with uncle/niece? it was still common-ish pre war and still exists today. Definitely not a Biblical only thing. In France you can marry a half sibling if the President agrees to it, so apparently uncle niece is not at all a problem.

The first cousin as worse genetically than uncle niece is a legend. Double first cousins, though, are just like uncle and niece.

The closest = the most recurrent things, GOOD AND BAD.

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