Marrying A Niece | Imamother

gold21

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:00 pm

but isramom, har sinai was a very long time ago. please tell me you dont honestly think it would be normal to marry one sibling. please. ITS A DIFFERENT TIME.

Isramom8

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:02 pm

Miriam also got involved in her parents' intimate life ("You should get back together and have kids and if you don't then you're being more stringent than Pharoh who is preventing only males from living"). She was considered right for speaking up at that time of crisis.

amother

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:04 pm

I think what amother means is that viewing a PROSPECTIVE spouse (BEFORE marriage) in a s-xual way is dirty. When I decided to marry dh, I wasn't thinking about s-x at all, but rather, that we have similar goals and priorities, and that I'd like to spend the rest of my life with this man.
If an uncle shares the same views as his niece, if they're compatible and attracted to each other, I see no reason why they shouldn't get married.
Surprise! Marriage is not all about s-x.

gold21

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:05 pm

yes but isramom that was a different time. I keep repeating that line. dont you agree with that statement? I really think we must live in our times. really, things were SOOOOOO different then.

gold21

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:08 pm

omigosh amother you really surprised me! I thought marriage was all about s-x! thanks for enlightening me! im sure youve been in many more marriages than I have been in, and therefore are so much more knowledgeable. thanks for the advice....duuh you ppl, you are definitely supposed to feel a s-xual attraction to the man you choose to marry. it is a positive thing, not a dirty thing. s-xuality isnt negative.

Ruchel

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:10 pm

gold21 wrote:

yes but isramom that was a different time. I keep repeating that line. dont you agree with that statement? I really think we must live in our times. really, things were SOOOOOO different then.

Torah is eternal. As long as it's allowed, and it IS allowed, and believe me still some find it very praiseworthy to keep the family together (by some I mean rabbis, authorities), there is nothing wrong with it except personal distaste for the idea.

Even in some non shomer mitsvos circles, these weddings still take place occasionally (and marrying cousins a lot more).

saw50st8

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:18 pm

Ruchel wrote:

gold21 wrote:

yes but isramom that was a different time. I keep repeating that line. dont you agree with that statement? I really think we must live in our times. really, things were SOOOOOO different then.

Not everything acceptable is praiseworthy.

amother

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:18 pm

gold21 wrote:

Of course s-xualilty isn't negative. It's a positive thing for a MARRIED couple.
And are you saying that I made a mistake in marrying dh? Because in no way was I s-xually attracted to him before we got married. Attracted, yes. But not s-xually. That came after marriage.

saw50st8

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:20 pm

amother wrote:

gold21 wrote:

What does attracted non-s-xually mean?

amother

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:26 pm

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that the word "attracted" can only be used in reference to s-x. But since it seems to be the case, I'll change the wording of my post.
Before we got married, I liked dh, I liked his personality, his middos, his smile, his thoughts and opinions, his manner of speaking (andmore). Happy now?

Ruchel

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:31 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

gold21 wrote:

yes but isramom that was a different time. I keep repeating that line. dont you agree with that statement? I really think we must live in our times. really, things were SOOOOOO different then.

Not everything acceptable is praiseworthy.

Mmmm. Someone didn't read.

Ruchel

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:31 pm

Weird facts:

Apparently genetically speaking uncle/niece or aunt/nephew is the same as half siblings. So apparently, genetically speaking, even half sibling isn't as bad as it is made to sound!

In discussing humans, the term inbreeding is highly offensive and judgmental. However, such marriages are not illegal in most of the world. Although it is an undisputed fact that cousin marriages increase the probability of genetic disease, the level of statistical increase varies with the degree of relationship, and the frequency of the marriages. The casual use of the term inbred implies that some degree of degradation exists, when in fact there may be no effect at all.

In general, higher total fertility rates are reported for cousin marriages than average, a phenomenon noted as far back as George Darwin during the late 19th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....usins (includes huge scientists!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage

I have learned a lot today lol

saw50st8

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:31 pm

amother wrote:

Its not used DIRECTLY relating to s-x, but if you are attracted to a person of the opposite gender, it generally corresponds. For example, you want to hold their hand or kiss them, which eventually leads to more. This is especially true when talking about prospective spouses - you can like their personality, middos, smile, opinions etc and not be attracted to the person AT ALL.

amother

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:38 pm

I hear you. But I do feel like you can be attracted to someone of the opposite gender, despite not thinking about s-x. You know that "click" that dating couples are always waiting for? Does that refer to s-x? I never thought it does.

amother

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:41 pm

I know of a uncle and neice that married, they had major shalam bayis problems and were seperated a few times, But they couldnt divorce as it would break the whole family...

Newly Wed

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 1:01 pm

Gold, there must be a reason why you are so worked up about this. No one asked you to marry your uncle (or maybe they did hence the strong reaction...) and no one is instructing you to marry your daughters off to their uncles. I believe the authorities would assur it if they would find that it is so awful as you think it is- instead I noticed that the trend is way more prevalent among the Rebbes than among any other group.

amother

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 1:17 pm

OH MY!

I just popped in and I see I missed alot.

Dont u all think that if the rabbanim would think its a problem for now adays, that they would change the rule (like rabeinu gershen). Obviously its not a problem. If its a problem for you , gold, who said u have to marry off your kids to a cousin or an uncle, for goodness sake.

I know alot of ppl that married first cousins (including my parents) and uncles.... I dont see what the problem is. I know some that even divorced. This is life. face it!!!

Raisin

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 1:25 pm

didn't think of how awkward it could be if an uncle/neice marriage divorced, but thats another point against it.

I do know of first cousins marrying...I could see that happening quite a lot, since frum girls are so segregated from the other gender, the only boys they are likely to know well are their cousin, and I guess it's normal that atttraction sometimes developes.

I know someone who married thier cousin and did lots of genetic tests beforehand.

I guess when people think of an uncle/neice marriage they are thinking of a older man/very young girl. but many uncles and neices are the same age. My grandmother was best friends with her aunt who was exactly the same age.