Marrying A Niece | Imamother

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Marrying A Niece

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amother

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 10:30 am

I have a friend that married her uncle.. her dad passed away when she was two and she married his brother....She looks like she has a wonderful marriage...

saw50st8

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 10:36 am

amother wrote:

I hear you. But I do feel like you can be attracted to someone of the opposite gender, despite not thinking about s-x. You know that "click" that dating couples are always waiting for? Does that refer to s-x? I never thought it does.

Well, I think the "click" or "attraction" that makes it more than just a "that's a nice guy to look at" is s-xually based.

A friend of mine kept dating guys with impressive resumes. They all fit her on paper but she once told me that she couldn't marry any of them because she couldn't imagine sleeping having any of them touch her. I think part of the attraction to someone is the hormonal part, which translates s-xually. Am I being clear, I'm not sure.

Isramom8

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 10:36 am

So Sara's grandmother becomes her mother in law. And Avraham and Sara's kids' grandparents are also their great grandparents.

chaylizi

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:05 am

gold21 wrote:

you know what, on that note, why dont we marry off our 3 year olds, like rivkah? why dont men marry two sisters, like yaakov, rochel, and leah? why dont sons get involved in their parents intimate affairs, like reuven, yaakov, and leah with reuven moving yaakov's bed? because its a different time. if you dont see that you are fooling yourself.

It hasn't been muttar to marry 2 sisters since the year 2448.

chaylizi

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:06 am

Ruchel wrote:

gold21 wrote:

you know its still halachically allowed to marry off a 3 year old. no? I dont believe that halacha has changed. so nu? my son is three and a half, I should get moving, no?

No. The girl has to be 12, with period (I think) and willing.

But rabbinical guidelines are much different, and include dina de malchusa dina.

I think you can do tenayim earlier than 12 though.

amother

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 11:36 am

saw50st8 wrote:

amother wrote:

Ok, I get what you're saying. You may be right that the click is hormonal, although during the entire time that I was in shidduchim, the thought of s-x never (ok, well, hardly ever) crossed my mind when thinking about any boy that was redt to me. So I guess I learned something today.

(I know we've gone way off the original topic of this thread, and I'm sorry about that. I was just trying to prove that if an uncle and niece do get married, it does not mean that they'd always been viewing each other in a s-xual way. As a matter of fact, in some Chasidish circles, girls hardly spend time and really get to know their (grown up) male relatives, so the attraction may only have started once they officially met for shidduchim purposes.)

myself

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:13 pm

I know of quite a few women that married their uncle. Can't see anything wrong with that!

GetReal

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:28 pm

chaylizi wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

gold21 wrote:

you know its still halachically allowed to marry off a 3 year old. no? I dont believe that halacha has changed. so nu? my son is three and a half, I should get moving, no?

No. The girl has to be 12, with period (I think) and willing.

But rabbinical guidelines are much different, and include dina de malchusa dina.

I think you can do tenayim earlier than 12 though.

I looked up these halachos not too long ago and gold21, a boy has to be older to get marries, thirteen and a day. A girl has to be an adult to get married but her father can marry her off as a child.

On topic - why is it so weird to marry an uncle? My dh is a few years older than his oldest niece and they lived miles apart growing up. It's different maybe if all your uncles are 40 years older than you and you grew up seeing them every day.

GetReal

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 12:34 pm

"According to Torah law, a father is permitted to act on behalf of his minor daughter in arranging marriage. There is no minimum age for this, although the Talmud advises that a girl not marry until she is prepared to say le’ploni ani rotzah, "him I want." Once a girl reaches maturity, she alone can consent to marriage."

gold21

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 1:09 pm

why my strong reaction? no not cuz anyone ever tried to convince me to marry my uncles: as wonderful as they are, they are my UNCLES. I reacted strongly cuz I was stressed out and still am stressed out, as my younger son isnt feeling well (he had mucus and blood in his diaper) and I have a headache. still, those of you who see absolutely no issue with such marriages are obviously on a very different wavelength than I, and I cant relate.

gold21

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 5:20 pm

I just wanted to add that theres no halachic issue with lesbianism. so...should we encourage lesbianism? NO.

Skippy!!

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 6:13 pm

amother wrote:

My youngest was born when my dd was 19. Her oldest is 1 1/2 years younger than my youngest. So it's not that old men are marrying their young neices. BTW there is genetic counsling available now.

Genetic counseling for marrying a relative is not going to help much. Many times they have children with unknown genetic sicknesses.

Last edited by Skippy!! on Thu, Jan 21 2010, 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

Mimisinger

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 6:21 pm

I have a friend that married her first cousin - their fathers are brothers.

That, I never heard of, until that. But, to each their own.

watermelon

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 7:54 pm

I had a classmate whos older sister was married to her mothers brother. They had an adorable little boy, who the pround aunt-cousin would show off in pictures. Everything was fine and dandy until the 2nd kid was born with a genetic dosorder and passed away quickly. And a 3rd also. ..

At that point they realized this wasnt working out genetically. So they divorced.

Its extremely uncomfortable for your mother in law to be your grandmother. My friend would talk about how odd her sister felt about that, even before the divorce.

Its really a sticky situation! Why bother?

Also, One of my classmates married her 2nd cousin. Their parents were 1st cousins. They divorced after about 2 months. Personally, such marriages are odd to me. Researching your own cousins mental health is probably too insulting and uncomfortable. So she ended up with a defective fellow. And had to divorce. And now the family is totally divided and dont come to eachothers simchas because its too odd to face eachother. So Again, why bother with these familial intermarriages? There are no shortages of unrelated males out there...

life'sgreat

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 7:56 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

Oh, uncles always flirt with their nieces - I think that seeing them as "real girls" rather than "like daughters" is rather natural.

So, Sarah is her own sister in law, and Avraham is his own nephew!

I met a woman whose last name was "Ploni". I asked if she was related to a different woman whose last name was "Ploni". She said they were sisters. But they were both married, so I asked how that could be. She said they married two brothers. I said that in that case, she should have said, 'She's my sister in law."

Rabbeinu Gershom wrote against two sisters marrying two brothers, but a sister and brother marrying a sister and brother is OK (for those who hold of him).

I know more than one uncle/niece marriage. I also know of one that was disastrous. They also had sick kids (one died, then the other) and they ended up divorcing. It is heartbreaking.

doodlesmom

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 10:23 pm

Regarding familial intermarriages, I know someone who was qouted to say: (translated)
If they're good, you might as well keep them in the family, and if they're not why should others find out!

Seraph

Thu, Jan 21 2010, 10:24 pm

gold21 wrote:

I just wanted to add that theres no halachic issue with lesbianism. so...should we encourage lesbianism? NO.

Uh, I beg to differ. Its called maaseh mitzrayim if I'm not mistaken and is a derabanan assur if not a dioraisa.

Ruchel

Fri, Jan 22 2010, 4:20 am

gold21 wrote:

I just wanted to add that theres no halachic issue with lesbianism. so...should we encourage lesbianism? NO.

As I said it is regarded as normal and praiseworthy by some, not like lesbianism. Please.

Sherri

Fri, Jan 22 2010, 4:29 am

gold21 wrote:

I just wanted to add that theres no halachic issue with lesbianism. so...should we encourage lesbianism? NO.

Just because you are not comfortable with uncles and nieces marrying (even though they maybe the same age and with other considerations that others have mentioned) does not make it as offensive as you are making it sound.

You are responding quite strongly to something that is not as catastrophic (even nowadays!) as you make it seem. It may not be palatable to you, but is accepted by others who are as worldly and knowledgeable as you. Yes, there may be risky health issues and interesting family dilemmas in some of those situations, but it is not in the same category as lesbians!

Edited

Last edited by Sherri on Sat, Jan 23 2010, 10:44 am; edited 1 time in total

GetReal

Fri, Jan 22 2010, 7:41 am

For every story that someone can post about how they know someone who married a niece/cousin and it didn;t work, there are hundreds where it did. Ruchel knows more about this than I do but for centuries Jews have married close relatives.

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