Marrying A Niece | Imamother

gold21

Fri, Jan 22 2010, 12:25 pm

sherri you are too sweet. if you dont understand why I find uncle-niece relationships so offensive, I ask you: what would you think if I suggested a sister-brother relationship? it would offend you very much no? (I sure hope so.) so, perhaps I am close to my uncles and am so comfortable around them and am nauseous at the thought of someone viewing their uncle as husband material...see what im saying? I shmooze with my uncles in the way one shmoozes with a close relative, not the way one shmozes with the neighbor. How can we take that relationship away from people and make it something else? ps my headache is gone now, but sherri you realy didnt have to be so nasty, did you?

life'sgreat

Fri, Jan 22 2010, 12:29 pm

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but AFAIK, it is a mitzva to have an uncle marry a niece.

gold21 wrote:

Because G-d said one isn't OK while the other is? If you feel uncomfortable about the phenomenon, don't do it, or even think about it. We all have our quirks and things that gross us out or are unfathomable to us. That doesn't make it inherently wrong.

D EMA

Fri, Jan 22 2010, 12:31 pm

My brother (8 years old) and daughter (6 years old)are best friends. We set down rules for them to maintain tznius. I have heard it is actually a mitzvah to marry a neice, but I personally would strongly discourage it. Anyway, as much as I love my mother, I would never want her to be my muchatenester Smile

gold21

Fri, Jan 22 2010, 12:34 pm

oh but is it an aveira to not have that uncle marry that niece? no. so why do something so socially inappropriate and so awkward for most living in 2010? trust me, this thread may have me as one of the only people arguing against such marriages, while the rest of you guys are so cool with it, but it is a total misrepresentation of the real world. in the real world, the vast vast majority of normal people agree that uncle-niece marriages are not normal or healthy. so, hey all u guys can bash me and argue with me til youre blue in the face, but I represent 95 percent of society, not you guys. imamother attracts a very unique crowd, I must say.

Mama Bear

Fri, Jan 22 2010, 12:58 pm

The only circles in which this is common practice still today is where boys stop talking to girls after the bar mitzvah, so their nieces would be practically strangers.

Gold, uncle and niece does not compare to brothe rand sister in any way shape or form. Uncle and niece do not live together or see each other on a daily or even weekly basis. by the time they go off to yeshiva they probably never see their nieces and have no shaychus with them. it would MAYBE be like marrying an old neighbor you used to be friends with when you were little.

MommyZ

Fri, Jan 22 2010, 1:37 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

If that neighbor happened to be a close blood relative.

pacifier

Fri, Jan 22 2010, 3:14 pm

gold21 wrote:

In the real world, uncles are probably old enough to be fathers or grandfathers of their nieces, being that in the real world most people marry late and have children even later.
I'd say imamother attracts a lot of religious women who come from large families, where people marry young and if an uncle and niece are about the same age and are friend with each other, and love each other, why shouldn't they be able to marry when there's no halachic or legal reason against.

gold21

Fri, Jan 22 2010, 3:58 pm

ok. nobodys really on my side on this thread but hey, theres little left to say anyhow. and its almost shabbos. im just wondering if even in the ultra-chassidish world, uncle-niece marriages raise some eyebrows? or its completely accepted? I was under the impression that not all ultra-chassidish are ok with it. ?

life'sgreat

Fri, Jan 22 2010, 4:01 pm

pacifier wrote:

gold21 wrote:

Many, if not most, wouldn't do it, but it doesn't raise eyebrows about those who do do it.

Mama Bear

Fri, Jan 22 2010, 4:16 pm

it raises eyebrows but not unheard of. it happens mostly in rebbishe circles, though I do know of about 2 non rebbishe uncle-niece marriages. The same eyebrows get raised when first cousins marry, but that's a little more common.

to me a bigger concern about such unions is the pressure to stay married even if youre unhappy, because you cant possibly get divorced from your uncle or your first cousins.

Sherri

Sat, Jan 23 2010, 1:40 pm

I think we all agree that nowadays such unions are not the norm, but there is nothing intrinsically "incestual" about it.

I apologize for my strong reaction, especially if you consider it nasty.
I think the way you are posting about Imamothers who disagree with you to be nasty.

Tova

Sat, Jan 23 2010, 7:02 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

to me a bigger concern about such unions is the pressure to stay married even if youre unhappy, because you cant possibly get divorced from your uncle or your first cousins.

"They" say: Never marry someone that you can't get divorced from.

I have no problem with the idea of it, but would be turned off from it because of potential genetic repercussions.

Ruchel

Sat, Jan 23 2010, 7:24 pm

two sisters marrying two brothers: there is no way this is forbidden, I have seen it in all types of families, from modern to charedi to very traditional to very learned to rabbinical.

awkward for the outside world: most of what we do is. Period.

Quote:

In the real world, uncles are probably old enough to be fathers or grandfathers of their nieces, being that in the real world most people marry late and have children even later.

The frum world is not real?

gold21

Sat, Jan 23 2010, 8:39 pm

my sisters boss is from new square and his daughter married his wifes brother, which is the girls uncle. my sisters impression was that her boss was not thrilled about it, but going along with his wife. so I wonder about what ppl in these circles realy feel about these marriages. sherri, I attacked an idea (quite aggressively) but not an individual. isramom youre the nicest poster, sorry for messing with your thread. I still think uncle-niece relationships feel wrong and sound wrong, but hey to those of you who do it, no further comments, please party on.

Ruchel

Sat, Jan 23 2010, 8:57 pm

I go by halacha to say what is wrong.

And if some minhagim say it is praiseworthy, then (at least for them) it is praiseworthy. And for the others, it is allowed (no, not tolerated or frowned upon like lesbianism, c'v, but allowed period).

Maybe the boss you mentioned wasn't happy. Doesn't mean anything about people as a whole (doesn't even mean the problem is uncle/niece, he may just dislike the guy, or would have preferred someone from HIS side, or any other possibility you don't quite know about). I know plenty of people unhappy with a frum or same-religion wedding taking place, should we all marry frei or intermarry?

As someone else said, for one mess up case you find dozens of happy marriages. If you really need, I can even ask my relatives how they felt about the uncle/niece marriages in their family, and certainly I can find dozens of testimonies for cousins just in my close family.

MetroMom

Sat, Jan 23 2010, 9:09 pm

In my opinion, one of the biggest issues with this practice is increasing the likelihood of having children with genetic diseases. There are thousand of recessive genetic diseases that become extremely likely in such a union where it would be almost impossible to bring into circulation otherwise... It's so scary...

life'sgreat

Sat, Jan 23 2010, 9:38 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I have not said it is. I said that according to Rabbeinu Gershom and those who keep to it, it shouldn't be done.

Isramom8

Sun, Jan 24 2010, 2:07 am

gold21 wrote:

I'm the nicest poster? On the whole of Imamother? Wow, you made my day! Queen

amother

Sun, Jan 24 2010, 4:09 am

My uncle and I are very similar and we had a very close relationship.

We thought about getting married for a long time.

It didn't work out for various reasons... but the issues you all brought up we weighed very carefully. (genetics/weirdness etc...)

We were the same age and had similar interests... and were attracted to each other.

I know it sounds sick objectively, but I find that if it is in Halacha then it means it can happen naturally.

We are not married ... so save the critical breath...

but I can definitely see how something like this can happen in today's day and age.
And we are not Sefardi/persian/yemenite.

Just a frum ashkenaz family...

saw50st8

Sun, Jan 24 2010, 8:11 am

amother wrote:

Amother, how do you relate to him now? Is it awkward or just a normal ex-boyfriend type of relationship?
(I'm just curious how this factors into the real life aspects)