Why is it so bad to say H-E-double L ?

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amother

Wed, May 12 2010, 1:00 pm

I know this is a strange questions but I really would like to know.
Why is it considered not nice to say h e l l ?
I am honestly curious. Not that I'm desparate to davka say this word, just that I wonder what the difference is in saying it in hebrew? No one seems to have a problem with someone saying gehennom, so why is the english term for it considered bad?
Does anyone have anything that could enlighten me on this. thanks

chocolate moose

Wed, May 12 2010, 1:15 pm

No. I understand that only certian Hebrew words are really nivul peh.

Having said that, it doesn't make it an aidel, fine loshon though.

ora_43

Wed, May 12 2010, 1:23 pm

I think it's just a matter of popular use. In English, hell is used as an insult, like "go to hell."

In Hebrew the same phrase would be "lech l'azazel," and not "lech l'gehenom." "Gehenom" is used to mean hell in the serious, afterlife kind of way, while "azazel" is the word you'd use just to express anger - and azazel is considered impolite in Hebrew the way "hell" is in English.

Chayalle

Wed, May 12 2010, 1:25 pm

What an interesting question. At first I couldn't think of any reason, just that I grew up that that was a word we didn't say (unless you particularly like soap, black pepper, or hot sauce....) so I didn't say it.

Thinking about it I'm wondering...

As a child, I was told to call a certain unfortunately prevelant illness "yeneh machla" yiddish for "that illness". I heard that the previous Rebbe of Belz said that those who don't say the word will never contract the illness. A segulah I guess.

I also heard that we are not supposed to say the names of bad angels (not that I know any) because saying the name invokes their service.

There seems to be a significance to not saying certain bad words, like saying it can bring it to reality. If we avoid saying it, hopefully we will not incur its wrath.

The questions still begs, though...why we can say it in Hebrew then, and not in English. Does the word have a bad source in English?

Like I've heard not to say Hurray. In my home we just say Yay, Yippee, etc...I heard that the word comes from Aru Aru (Ha'omrim Aru Aru - the Babylonians said this while destroying Yerushalayim, and it literally means "destroy, destroy"). The phrase "hip hip hurrah" is an antisemitic slogan, and I've heard it was used by the nazi's Y'SH. HIP comes from HEP, which stands for (latin) Hirosilma et Peridusa - Jerusalem has perished - and was initiated by the Babylonians, and said by the Romans, and on to many other enemies of the Jews, may they all perish.

So a word that has a bad source should not be uttered....but I don't know where this one comes from.

Cookies n Cream

Wed, May 12 2010, 1:27 pm

Because it has evolved into a curse word.
Same with dam-n.
Years ago this was a fine word. (Read Shakespeare), but it has become a common curse word.

amother

Wed, May 12 2010, 1:42 pm

simply because it has become a word associated with something negative. its kind of like the word
n-gger (if you'll pardon me for saying it, just using it as an example). years ago, saying n-gger was fine but it just became associated with negativity and now its also like a curse word also. the actual word hell is not bad, we as society have turned it into something bad by using it in derogatory ways...

sequoia

Wed, May 12 2010, 1:50 pm

The N word was always insulting and never okay.

[black person] used to be a neutral word and now is considered insulting, although the United [black person] College Fund has not changed its name.

mommalah

Wed, May 12 2010, 1:55 pm

ora_43 wrote:

This made me laugh. It kind of makes me think of how a seminary girl might think to curse at an Israeli! LOL.

louche

Wed, May 12 2010, 1:56 pm

amother wrote:

years ago, saying n-gger was fine but it just became associated with negativity and now its also like a curse word also. the actual word hell is not bad, we as society have turned it into something bad by using it in derogatory ways...

WHERE did you get this utterly absurd idea? The n-word was ALWAYS offensive. Always. It's a corruption of [black person], which means black, but in its corrupted form it was always a term of disrespect. Its use may not have made gently-reared rich Southern white ladies turn pale and call for their smelling salts the way vulgar words for various bodily parts and functions did--but offensive and hateful it always was. It is not a "curse word" in the sense of nivul peh, but it was never a "fine" word. It was always an insult.

You may be thinking of "niggard", which means stingy, is a perfectly acceptable word, and has a completely different etymology. Smart people avoid using it where it may be misheard or misunderstood.

Simple1

Wed, May 12 2010, 2:39 pm

Those of you saying the N words was never okay - read Huckleberry Finn (Mark Twain)

sequoia

Wed, May 12 2010, 2:43 pm

So? Plenty of books have swear words, or curse language, or insults. Doesn't make those words morally okay.

Simple1

Wed, May 12 2010, 2:49 pm

Seuoia you might be right - I don't read that much fiction. I just assumed when reading it that the word was less stigmatized back then. ( and I am not the amother who originally posted about the N word)

Tova

Wed, May 12 2010, 8:01 pm

Chayelle - that was VERY interesting; I never knew a lot of that before.

Thanks for sharing and taking the time to type it up.

amother

Wed, May 12 2010, 8:06 pm

Maybe cuz its kinda hot? Not so cool, man.

Why not use the nicer curses, like "go step on a tack" or lots of nice Yiddish ones our grandmas used to say, like "Brech a fis," guy in dreard", "hak dir in chinik" or just simply"Lomichup" or "Guy Shoin Avec"!

When I grew up I was surrounded by cursing till it became unbearable. I swore (BN of course) that I would never use filthy language. I have to be pretty riled up to let filth come out of my mouth, it is rare, but I would not say it never happened. However, thankfully, it doesn't come out on a daily basis as I heard it years ago all around me. I so do not tolerate it that even those that speak in "french" are more careful when I am there, they know I dislike it with a passion. In this way I have cleaned up, at least temporarily the mouths of plenty of folks around me.

amother

Wed, May 12 2010, 8:08 pm

Sorry, did not mean to insult anyone speaking real French, but that is the term I use when I say "Please watch your French, instead of saying shut your filthy mouth". Did not mean to hurt anyone's feelings out there. And I know here on imamother, every word means so much!

sugaray

Wed, May 12 2010, 11:13 pm

I think if you are using the work "hell" to mean actual hell, then nothing is wrong with it. if you are using it negatively (slang) like "what the hell" or "go to hell", then it is not acceptable in some circles.

amother

Thu, May 13 2010, 4:29 am

Thanks all for your responses. Interesting to hear . I guess it makes sense that it became to mean a sort of curse word. And Chayalle, what you wrote is very interesting.

chanchy123

Thu, May 13 2010, 4:37 am

Chayalle wrote:

Do you have a source for the whole hip hip hurray thing?

Besiyata Dishmaya

Thu, May 13 2010, 5:41 am

sequoia wrote:

The N word was always insulting and never okay.

[black person] used to be a neutral word and now is considered insulting, although the United [black person] College Fund has not changed its name.

For this reason I always chuckle when I see the word [black person] instead of Black on the Kiwi shoe polish.

sugaray wrote:

That's why saying it in Hebrew is not a problem.

Chayalle, everything you wrote is correct but I never heard of "Yay, Yippee, etc." Not to say names of angels is mentioned in seforim.

smilethere

Thu, May 13 2010, 5:47 am

Chayelle thanks for the info.

I was thinking - I don't know - maybe because H-LL is a totally xtian word? I know some jewish sects are very into gehinom, but we don't (afaik) use it often. Catholics will meniton everybody else burning in H-LL at all points in time, so to me the word, has a very Xtian feeling.

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