A question for the MO Imamothers

Tzippora

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 8:07 am

Since people brought up the argument regarding electricity on shabbos and YT, the various posters are correct that it is not such a given that electricity in all its uses is assur on shabbos.

This article goes through the various reasons for electricity being assur, and knocks the basis out from each one. In particular, regarding the position of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach:

http://www.megavolt.co.il/arti......html

Quote:

Rabbi Auerbach (Minchat Shlomo 74, 84), after rejecting all the potential sources discussed above for prohibiting the use of electricity when no light or heat is generated, concludes that, at least in theory, electrical appliances that use no heat or light (e.g., a fan) are permitted on Shabbat and Yom Tov. However, he declines actually to permit their use absent urgent need. He states:

In my opinion there is no prohibition [to use electricity] on Shabbat or Yom Tov... There is no prohibition of ma'keh bepatish or molid... (However, I [Rabbi Auerbach] am afraid that the masses will err and turn on incandescent lights on Shabbat, and thus I do not permit electricity absent great need...) ... This matter requires further analysis.
* * * *
However, the key point in my opinion is that there is no prohibition to use electricity on Shabbat unless the electricity causes a prohibited act like cooking or starting a flame..

Knowing this isn't useful... unless you have an urgent need, such as a potentially non-life threatening choleh in your house, or a question of amira l'akum. In that case, it DOES help to know that using the phone or other electronic devices is not the same thing as driving, for example.

saw50st8

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 9:01 am

chavamom wrote:

Passing a ring isn't exactly an embrace now is it. And again - where do you draw the line? OK in the hospital, but once you get home not?

Many rabbonim are much more lenient with harchakot post partum if a woman feels she needs hugs. I know a few women who asked and were told if they felt they needed a hug as part of emotional support, they could get them.

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 9:18 am

Ruchel wrote:

I don't know many rabbanim who would NOT do that. Except those who rule you can only refer to them or have absolutely no interest in the outside world, and these ones are not my cup of tea.

My guess would be that my rabbonim would say "I haven't heard of him to make any opinion. It makes no bearing on halacha what that rabbi says. We hold like X."

I know I once asked my rav about something that was the psak of a rav elsewhere. My question was "Isn't it assur to _____ because of ____?" He gave a smile and said "I know what you're referring to, but no, it's not."
That's it. He had a tremendous breadth of knowledge in order to pinpoint exactly what shitta I was bringing up without ever mentioning names, and he concluded after going through the halacha, that he doesn't hold that way. It makes no difference how famous the rabbi is (the one who gave the psak I referred to is very well known); we give them the respect, but don't necessarily say their halacha is accurate for us. Is it halacha for anyone? I don't know. I have no idea if anyone has ever asked that shaila to another rav and gotten the same psak this well known rabbi gave. For all I know, he was relying on the method of "err on the side of caution and be machmir to the masses"....

chavamom

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 9:24 am

saw50st8 wrote:

chavamom wrote:

Passing a ring isn't exactly an embrace now is it. And again - where do you draw the line? OK in the hospital, but once you get home not?

And I'm sure people need (emotionally, of course) to have an embrace photographed for posterity. Even if someone matirs this, what does it have to do with having photographs done?

saw50st8

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 9:38 am

chavamom wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

chavamom wrote:

Passing a ring isn't exactly an embrace now is it. And again - where do you draw the line? OK in the hospital, but once you get home not?

And I'm sure people need (emotionally, of course) to have an embrace photographed for posterity. Even if someone matirs this, what does it have to do with having photographs done?

I didn't say it was ok for pictures :-) I was just commenting on the embrace part.

HY, generally, rabbonim will be more lenient with harchakot and physical touching post partum if a woman needs. Especially if she has a history of post partum depression.

shnitzel

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 9:59 am

Do you really think you need to teach full harchakos to someone who has never been "shomer negiah" in their lives and you know is fooling around with her chosson? I know a lot of people like that and I really wonder. If they are obviously touching, like holding hands and being affectionate in public isn't odd to teach them when they are married they can't pass each other the salt? Those are usually the same people who are meikel for themselves about touching during niddah also, and for sure after having a baby.

I also don't think it is unrealistic that someone in America is taught TH and is not frum. I know my mil went to the mikvah before she got married (she said it was gross and was happy she was never going to go again, little did she know...) b/c they were married by a frum rabbi. A lot of non frum people we know are affiliated with frum shuls or chabad in their city so I am sure mikvah and some sort of TH class are covered before marriage but again you aren't going to tell a couple who is living together they can't pass the salt when married.

saw50st8

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 10:05 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Again, harchakos != physical touching != hugs. I know people who got heterim for the first and/or second for needs. But not the third. My personal knowledge.
Is this within a certain time frame? Like the first 3 days she's in sakana?

The few cases I know of involved women who were prone to PPD. I guess their Rabbis felt that they needed their husbands for physical and emotional support during that time. I don't think it was just within the first 3 day window. One of the woman I know, tried to get to the mikvah ASAP even though they weren't going to have s-ex for a while.

Last edited by saw50st8 on Wed, Dec 15 2010, 10:08 am; edited 1 time in total

saw50st8

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 10:06 am

shnitzel wrote:

Yes.

I know many cases of people who weren't shomer negiah pre-marriage but keep harchakot post marriage.

Barbara

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 10:13 am

saw50st8 wrote:

shnitzel wrote:

Yes.

I know many cases of people who weren't shomer negiah pre-marriage but keep harchakot post marriage.

As do I.

But I still don't think that anyone -- be it a rabbi or not -- gets to judge whether or not someone is entitled to learn halacha.

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 10:23 am

shnitzel wrote:

I personally know someone who was not shomer negiah before marriage who said it was extremely difficult to adjust to harchakos because they had touched before marriage.

JAWSCIENCE

Wed, Dec 15 2010, 10:42 am

chavamom wrote:

I think it's more accurate to say "emunas chachamim doesn't mean we follow or even credit as valid what anonymous posters on a message board post"

I can definitely get on board with that statement. It's interesting to debate and learn what together people do and why they do it, that doesn't mean someone on here is going to convince me to change from the psak given to me by my LOR.