Blending natural hair with shaitel hair in front

amother

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 11:53 am

amother wrote:

I pull my hair out in the front and wear headbands back with hair showing. I never asked a rav I just do it because I like how it looks. I'm not considered modern orthodox. I live in Flatbush my husband wears a black hat on Shabbos. Most of my friends wear there hair out too. Its pretty much accepted in my circles and I doubt anyone has asked a rav.

I think this and MamaBear's is the main answer. What I was expecting.

I don't understand why all these threads ask "how can people do this? Isn't it totally wrong? Who do they hold by?" I've learned by now that many people "hold by" their feelings and don't really care what's allowed and what's not.

tikva18

Sun, Feb 27 2011, 6:37 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

So I was thinking about this...

Do all of you who don't show any hair wear headband falls? I've never seen any that don't move , even when they start at the hairline. If you know its going to move, you shouldn't rely on "well its ok if the tefach shows if it just happens" right?

I only have a regular sheitl (one - not a shabbos one or anything extra) and snoods or tichels. I do my best to keep my hair completely covered - if my snood slips I fix it immediately- and have asked my family to please inform me if I don't notice (not usually the case). My sheitl has clips in it to keep it exactly in place.

Besiyata Dishmaya

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 3:30 pm

OPINIONATED wrote:

Mommyme1 wrote:

Would you like to know what Yeshivish women think of this or what Yeshivish poskim hold?
Becuase I'm almost sure you won't find a Yeshivish Rav that allows you to even show a tefach, and as I just heard from a Rav giving a shiur about this - Rav Moshe's psak was that if a tefach is showing a man can still make a bracha, however he did not mean that a woman is allowed to show a tefach.

What women think about it might be a whole 'nuther discussion...

Which brings us to the head coverings that "slip" back and really show... The scarves almost never stay in place...

I have no doubt that this is precisely the reason the brilliant Lubavitcher Rebbe zt”l specifically instructed his chassidim only to wear a sheitel because only a sheitel covers all parts of the hair. Of course it would be unheard of in Lubavitch to blend your natural with sheitel hair.

Mommyme1

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 4:13 pm

Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:

OPINIONATED wrote:

Mommyme1 wrote:

Which brings us to the head coverings that "slip" back and really show... The scarves almost never stay in place...

Actually in that shiur it was alsom mentioned that this is why some Rabbanim prefer Sheitels because they are the only way to cover ALL your hair.

Mommyme1

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 4:15 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

I don't wear a headband fall for this reason. And when I wear a snood - I have ones with tight bands at the front that keep it from moving back, or my pretied which is very tight and doesn't slip. When I wore my pretied while doing sports or things where it might slip back I fastened it with bobbypins.

Chavelamomela

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 4:26 pm

Mommyme1 wrote:

Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:

OPINIONATED wrote:

Mommyme1 wrote:

Which brings us to the head coverings that "slip" back and really show... The scarves almost never stay in place...

Actually in that shiur it was alsom mentioned that this is why some Rabbanim prefer Sheitels because they are the only way to cover ALL your hair.

And there are poskim who say sheytels are assur, that tichel is the ideal covering.

Listen, I personally wear all kinds of covering. When I wear my headband fall or a tichel, I tuck all my hair in, but my rav has said explicitly that if a bit shows (less than a tefach) that it's FINE. Women have been wearing tichels for a lot longer than they wore sheytels, and I am sure that there were women 200 years ago who had "neck" hair or "payos" or whatever that slip out no matter how tightly or carefully a woman covers. And that's OKAY.

Its fine to say that the Rebbe preferred shaytels. But that doesn't mean that other forms of covering are inferior for women in other communities. (In fact, if you're sefardi, Sheytels are assur and tichels are ideal. )

As for hair-blending - I know women who do it w. a headband, and are quite careful.

Let's not be so quick to judge people just because their practice differs slightly from yours. There are good and solid people who do these things, even if you don't do it yourself.

Mommy3.5

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 5:20 pm

Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:

OPINIONATED wrote:

Mommyme1 wrote:

Which brings us to the head coverings that "slip" back and really show... The scarves almost never stay in place...

Its not unheard of, I know plenty of lubavich girls that do this. I’ve seen everything when I worked in a wig salon....

PinkFridge

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 5:28 pm

Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:

OPINIONATED wrote:

Mommyme1 wrote:

Which brings us to the head coverings that "slip" back and really show... The scarves almost never stay in place...

I'd heard because back in the day a woman might feel tempted to take the "shmattah" off her head and stick it in her purse.

paprika

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 7:12 pm

Mommy3.5 wrote:

Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:

freidasima wrote:

from what I remember from personal experience when I was a child almost everyone who was really frum pulled out a few strands in the front and combed them over the top of the sheitl and used a few bobby pins to keep the hair in place covering the sheitl's hairline. These were certainly not MO women but of the charedi groups which didn't shave or cut their hair very very very short, the hairs that they pulled out were at least two to three inches and it was totally acceptable.

I never noticed chareidi women doing this. And totally acceptable? shock

I don't believe it.

All one needs to do is look at pictures of very frum Jews from the 50's and 60's.

They were post war people, and had other major difficulties for the moment. Within a few years, most of them covered all the way.

amother

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 8:20 pm

Ok! I got some explaining to do here!
First about the shaitel vs. Tichel. A tichel is definitely the more tznua option, all through the ages, that's what women wore. If you look back, when did women start to wear shaitels? After the war, there were almost no women wearing ANYTHING to cover their hair, cause they didn't want anything on their head. they wanted to look nice, so rabbonim came out with this heter that women can wear shaitels, it encouraged a lot of women to cover their hair. Because it looked "natural" (that's what my grandmother used to say all the time) as for why we women decided we're allowed custom wigs is beside me! But that's the reason for the heter on wigs, so that at least women cover "with something".
As for the showing your own hair! ITS ABSOLUTELY NOT ALLOWED!! I can try to find out where he took it from, but my BIL just learned, that a womens hair must be totally covered at all times! However, IF BY MISTAKE a little hair does stick out, up to a tefach, a man is still allowed to make a brachah in front of her. So this is where these women get their "heter" to allow their hair to show up to a tefach. You can't go sticking your hair out and say "well its only a tefach". As I stressed, "if the women doesn't notice that its actually showing".

amother

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 9:22 pm

Quote:

sorry to disillusion you but I am lubavitch and I do blend a few hairs into my sheitel. why do I do it when im pretty much careful with the rest of tznius? I guess its a yetzer hora thing. look around lubavitch communities and you'll see im far from being the only one to do this.

Besiyata Dishmaya

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 12:09 am

Chavelamomela wrote:

Mommyme1 wrote:

Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:

OPINIONATED wrote:

Mommyme1 wrote:

Which brings us to the head coverings that "slip" back and really show... The scarves almost never stay in place...

Actually in that shiur it was alsom mentioned that this is why some Rabbanim prefer Sheitels because they are the only way to cover ALL your hair.

And there are poskim who say sheytels are assur, that tichel is the ideal covering.

That's why I added the word "brilliant" to the Lubavitcher Rebbe zt"l. Halachically, a tichel is surely better, but the Rebbe "knows" his chassidim and what the covering of the hair would look like for some if they wouldn't cover it with a sheitel...

Quote:

Listen, I personally wear all kinds of covering. When I wear my headband fall or a tichel, I tuck all my hair in, but my rav has said explicitly that if a bit shows (less than a tefach) that it's FINE.

"it's fine" if by mistake it sticks out less than a tefach but NOT lechatchilah.

Quote:

Women have been wearing tichels for a lot longer than they wore sheytels, and I am sure that there were women 200 years ago who had "neck" hair or "payos" or whatever that slip out no matter how tightly or carefully a woman covers. And that's OKAY.

If you'll look at photos of women of yesteryear, you'd hardly find hairs sticking out "even a tefach".

Quote:

Its fine to say that the Rebbe preferred shaytels. But that doesn't mean that other forms of covering are inferior for women in other communities. (In fact, if you're sefardi, Sheytels are assur and tichels are ideal. )

The Rebbe zt"l "knew" his chassidim and the temptations of today's women.

Quote:

As for hair-blending - I know women who do it w. a headband, and are quite careful.

Mommy3.5 wrote:

Its not unheard of, I know plenty of lubavich girls that do this. I’ve seen everything when I worked in a wig salon....

I'm not talking about MO Lubavitch.

If the Rebbe were alive, they wouldn't dare go in to the Rebbe with such a sheitel.

Chavelamomela wrote:

Let's not be so quick to judge people just because their practice differs slightly from yours. There are good and solid people who do these things, even if you don't do it yourself.

Nobody is judging others. We're just discussing what is preferable TODAY.

sequoia

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 12:21 am

Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:

Quote:

"it's fine" if by mistake it sticks out less than a tefach but NOT lechatchilah.

There are some rabbis who say that.

There are some who say showing a tefach is always okay.

There are some who say all you need is some kind of head covering, not hair covering.

There are some who say no covering is necessary.

All of them are Orthodox rabbis.

Maybe not your rabbis.

But they exist.