Blending natural hair with shaitel hair in front

Mommyme1

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 4:54 am

If I remember correctyly what the Rav said was that when people started wearing sheitels some Rabbanim said - 'Oh, that's a better way to keep everything covered. Sounds like a great idea!'

He was not Lubavitch by the way. And he was talking to a room of women in both sheitels and tichels, and I actually thought it was funny that he was saying how it's so easy for a tichel or snood to slip back and you have to wear it almost to your eyes if you don't want to show hair - and there were women there whose snoods did almost just that. Smile

He also mentioned that the hairs on the back of your neck that may show when you wear a snood or the "peyes" are not included in ervah and it's okay if they aren't covered.

About the argument of what certain Orthodox Rabbanim allow - that may be, and I do agree that the label Orthodox does not automatically mean Chareidi, however that is not answering the OP who asked specifically if Yeshivish women who do this have asked their Rav. I assume that a Yeshivish woman's Rav would also be Yeshivish, so those are the Rabbanim which she is asking about.

And as many posters answered - no, Yeshivish Rabbanim do not allow this. The women who 'hold by' the Yeshivish Rabbanim who do this have not asked.

imabima

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 8:07 am

saw50st8 wrote:

So I was thinking about this...

Do all of you who don't show any hair wear headband falls? I've never seen any that don't move , even when they start at the hairline. If you know its going to move, you shouldn't rely on "well its ok if the tefach shows if it just happens" right?

I have a band fall and I don't show any hair. I put the band half on my forehead and half on the shaital. In retrospect I wouldn't get a band fall again. I end up wearing the band over my ears to not show hair and it isn't comfortable. I got this before I was married and didn't really know better.

PinkFridge

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 8:15 am

Haven't women been wearing wigs for a good few generations? OK, so they were really, really ugly, but sheitals are not a post-war innovation.

And speaking of scratching heads, is there anything between chareidi and MO? Just sayin. Also, I'm growing to believe that chareidi is an Israeli construct. The closest in the US might, might be yeshivish. But this is a whole other thread. Really. It's out there somewhere, still unresolved.

Mommyme1

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 10:13 am

My grandfather has pictures of his grandmothers, maybe even great-grandmothers wearing wigs so I don't think it's such a new concept.

And I think we've discussed before that Chareidi is an Israeli thing and doesn't really translate to anyone in America. In Eretz Yisrael Chareidim includes the Yeshivish & Chassidish, but the American counterparts don't fit anywhere into Israeli society's definitions.

amother

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 10:23 am

[quote="PinkFridge"] Scratching Head

Haven't women been wearing wigs for a good few generations? OK, so they were really, really ugly, but sheitals are not a post-war innovation.

actually if I remember correctly, I was told that no one wore a shaitel even post war, my grandmother didn't cover her hair at first, there's a shailah to begin with if wigs are allowed at all (which is why some rabbonim don't allow shaitels) but because women didn't want to cover their hair, the heter came out. My grandmother started wearing a shaitel later after she got married, it was an unheard of thing at the time. And it was horrible. So yes they sacrificed, and some of us women, can't just wear a shaitel!? Rolling Eyes

some ladies try fooling everyone that they look better, or that no one can tell its a shaitel.....we all know its a wig, and no! You don't look any different if your hair sticks out or not.

cassandra

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 10:32 am

Actually, that obscure teshuva by that obscure Connecticut rabbi that Ruchel always cites as the halachic basis of uncovering hair says that he looked for a heter because women were wearing wigs that looked like dead animals on their heads and he did not think that was good for acculturation. This was in the 1920s, I believe, so obviously it was widespread pre-War. I don't know how much further back, though.

(The Gemara also talks about peah nachrit, but we don't get a sense that it was a common practice.)

mommyhood

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 10:37 am

imabima wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

I didn't get a band fall because I have such a low hairline that I would have to wear the headband over my ears but I have many friends who wear or wore band falls without showing any hair I've spent full days with them and the band never slipped. You just have to make sure to have the sheitel clipped in well and a non slippery band.

AlwaysGrateful

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 10:41 am

imabima wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

Yes, I agree with that.

As for the hairline itself, Saw, I have a very high hairline and wear wide headbands. So no, they don't slip back.

And to the best of my knowledge, (some?) people who "don't believe in the tefach thing" actually only don't believe in it l'chatchilah. If it happens, then b'dieved it's fine. The same way that you wouldn't say "Well, I want to use my aino ben yomo ladel to serve my soup..." (make up rest of scenarios to be something that isn't ok l'chatchila but is b'dieved), but if it happens, it's fine.

That's from what I understand.

PinkFridge

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 10:49 am

[quote="amother"]

PinkFridge wrote:

But they did wear hats.

saw50st8

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 10:50 am

AlwaysGrateful wrote:

imabima wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

Maybe, but from the people I've seen (people who don't show anything), their band falls slip back. Inside, outside, everywhere. Maybe pulling your headband over your ears works, but I haven't seen many people IRL who do this. (I personally don't like the look, but that's a different story).

If you know something might slip more than you want it to, it doesn't make sense to wear it. So if you see that it does slip, then you should stop wearing it no?

PinkFridge

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 10:51 am

AlwaysGrateful wrote:

imabima wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

Not quite analogous. After a few days of wearing whatever you know what's likely to happen.
I'm not judging anyone, just clarifying.

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 11:02 am

Saw, there are some people who hold you may not show a tefach of hair on the head, but sideburns/payos don't count, since they're facial hair.
So for those people, they can wear a headband fall with a stretchy headband that doesn't slip back, have it behind their ears, and the only hair showing is the sideburns.

saw50st8

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 11:05 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Makes sense HY.

But that doesn't help with slippage.

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 11:12 am

saw50st8 wrote:

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Makes sense HY.

But that doesn't help with slippage.

Depends what headbands are used on whose head.
An elastic cotton headband (is that what they're called?) is less likely to slip than a silky one, most likely.

cassandra

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 12:06 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Makes sense HY.

But that doesn't help with slippage.

My fall has clips, and headbands are tight and elastic. Why would it slip?

farm

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 2:58 pm

Quote:

My fall has clips, and headbands are tight and elastic. Why would it slip?

same here. My fall has clips and my headbands have elastic. I wouldn't wear them if they slipped- how embarrassing, especially in a professional setting where no one knows I cover my hair. It's the tichels, snoods and bandanas that I can't seem to carry off. They slip and slide all over the place. I bought some sheitel clips to sew on them, we'll see how that goes.

suzyq

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 3:09 pm

farm wrote:

Quote:

My fall has clips, and headbands are tight and elastic. Why would it slip?

Yeah, my fall actually moves less than my full sheitel does.

And, btw, I was given the psak by a very yeshivish rav (though I'm not yeshivish myself) that the halacha is to cover all but a tefach, and only outside the house (he said I didn't need to inside our house even if other men were present, but I usually do, because I don't want people to be uncomfortable). Now, it's possible he gave me the most lenient psak he could because I was not convinced that I was going to cover my hair at all. My point really is that you can't just say "THE HALACHA IS" across the board.