Blending natural hair with shaitel hair in front

imaima

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 3:32 pm

amother wrote:

Ok! I got some explaining to do here!
First about the shaitel vs. Tichel. A tichel is definitely the more tznua option, all through the ages, that's what women wore. If you look back, when did women start to wear shaitels? After the war, there were almost no women wearing ANYTHING to cover their hair, cause they didn't want anything on their head. they wanted to look nice, so rabbonim came out with this heter that women can wear shaitels, it encouraged a lot of women to cover their hair. Because it looked "natural" (that's what my grandmother used to say all the time) as for why we women decided we're allowed custom wigs is beside me! But that's the reason for the heter on wigs, so that at least women cover "with something".
As for the showing your own hair! ITS ABSOLUTELY NOT ALLOWED!! I can try to find out where he took it from, but my BIL just learned, that a womens hair must be totally covered at all times! However, IF BY MISTAKE a little hair does stick out, up to a tefach, a man is still allowed to make a brachah in front of her. So this is where these women get their "heter" to allow their hair to show up to a tefach. You can't go sticking your hair out and say "well its only a tefach". As I stressed, "if the women doesn't notice that its actually showing".

Yeah, Amother's BIL is definitely the only Rabbi whose opinion I value... Rolling Eyes

saw50st8

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 4:03 pm

cassandra wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Saw, there are some people who hold you may not show a tefach of hair on the head, but sideburns/payos don't count, since they're facial hair.
So for those people, they can wear a headband fall with a stretchy headband that doesn't slip back, have it behind their ears, and the only hair showing is the sideburns.

Makes sense HY.

But that doesn't help with slippage.

My fall has clips, and headbands are tight and elastic. Why would it slip?

I don't wear band falls but I've heard many complaints from women about theirs slipping (especially my sister), I see women on the street with their falls slightly angled/shifted, and I see women fixing them all the time. I doubt its only the women I see.

And to the amother who says her BIL said every strand of hair must be covered - that is absolutely a valid opinion. But its not the only one.

farm

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 4:57 pm

Quote:

I guess you don't see me (or Cassandra?). I put it on in the morning and don't touch it until I come home from work and take it off, except for running my fingers through the hair occaissionally to make sure there are no knots. Maybe your sister needs a better fit or better clips on hers? She shouldn't have to deal with that.
BTW, how to I include the poster's name when I quote?

momof2sofar

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 5:19 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Sorry I'm joining so late. If you have to categorize me you'd say I'm YU yeshivish probably, and thats exactly what my Rav told me when I got married. That the hairs on the sides (sideburns) and the tiny hairs that are uncovered when you wear a band fall are not really hair and it is no problem showing them LICHATCHILA.
I have NEVER had a problem with my band fall slipping. In fact I always joke around that I'd like to give birth in it so I wouldn't have to worry about my hair covering falling off.

Mitpachot and snoods are a different story though.

gryp

Wed, Mar 02 2011, 10:50 am

Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:

Chavelamomela wrote:

Mommyme1 wrote:

Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:

OPINIONATED wrote:

Mommyme1 wrote:

Would you like to know what Yeshivish women think of this or what Yeshivish poskim hold?
Becuase I'm almost sure you won't find a Yeshivish Rav that allows you to even show a tefach, and as I just heard from a Rav giving a shiur about this - Rav Moshe's psak was that if a tefach is showing a man can still make a bracha, however he did not mean that a woman is allowed to show a tefach.

What women think about it might be a whole 'nuther discussion...

Which brings us to the head coverings that "slip" back and really show... The scarves almost never stay in place...

I have no doubt that this is precisely the reason the brilliant Lubavitcher Rebbe zt”l specifically instructed his chassidim only to wear a sheitel because only a sheitel covers all parts of the hair. Of course it would be unheard of in Lubavitch to blend your natural with sheitel hair.

Actually in that shiur it was alsom mentioned that this is why some Rabbanim prefer Sheitels because they are the only way to cover ALL your hair.

And there are poskim who say sheytels are assur, that tichel is the ideal covering.

That's why I added the word "brilliant" to the Lubavitcher Rebbe zt"l. Halachically, a tichel is surely better, but the Rebbe "knows" his chassidim and what the covering of the hair would look like for some if they wouldn't cover it with a sheitel

Sorry, BSD, but this is completely ridiculous.
The Rebbe's requests to the Chasidim were always based on the halacha, while taking kabbalah into account.
It is ludicrous to suggest that the Rebbe asked of us to do something second-rate because we wouldn't want to do the lchatchila. Anyone who says that knows not the first thing about the Rebbe, what he stood for, and what he expected of his Chassidim and other followers.

chavamom

Wed, Mar 02 2011, 3:54 pm

I'm pretty sure that I've seen that quoted as well as people who were told that by the Lub. rebbe, that the problem with a scarf or hat is that you can take it off. Remember that video that was posted here with the woman who was given money by the rebbe to buy a sheitel in the 60's or 70's b/c he wanted her to be an example to the community? I"m pretty sure she said that in her interview.

winter_rose

Tue, Apr 24 2012, 5:47 pm

We learned in my seminary that headcovering and tznius is one area where a rav is NOT allowed to make a "ruling" regarding what a woman is or isn't allowed to do beyond the basic halacha (which is not very much covered. Like a kippah size covrin the top of the head.) All a rav can do is look and see what women in their communty are doing and say what it is. He might make a suggestion as to what might be a higher level, and people are so used to listening to him they follow it as if it were halacha, but the truh is the women set the standard and I don't think most women know this. Once a level has been assumed by the women of a community, they can't become less strict unless they all get together and decide on a less strigent standard. There was a responsa in Spain where the women were asking if they could have the curls oftheir hair sticking out of the front of their mantillas and thy were told since that's hat everyone does it was fine, whereas in a community where everyone covers every strand of hair that wouldn't be ok. The "tefach" showing was the standard of the time when the question was asked in our communities. As long as you aren't living in a community that has consistently kept a higher standard since that time, it shouldn't be an issue.

Inspired

Tue, Apr 24 2012, 5:59 pm

chavamom wrote:

You can read the teshuva online. The reason the rebbe gives for preferring sheitels is, in fact the idea that a woman wearing a scarf would be more likely to take it off "when meeting her friend" in the street. It seemed like he was talking about BTs. The only women I have ever seen pull off headcoverings were both in cars and were both wearing sheitels. the rebbe mentions nothing about which covers hair better, which FTR is whichever is worn well, kept in place and checked on. I have seen acidental peeking hair from every kind of hair covering.

amother

Thu, Nov 08 2012, 10:21 pm

amother wrote:

I just realized that our Rosh Yeshiva's wife does it (shows her natural hair in front of the shaitel), so I'm not too worried about it.

Why? is she your posekes?

Seriously. Just because the RY's wife does something does not mean you don't have to worry about it being wrong. Not everyone listens to their husband. Yes even if he's a rosh yeshiva. Not every dh tells his wife what to do. Not every dh knows the halachos correctly. Yes even a rosh yeshiva.
Heading a yeshiva does not make one a baki on halacha.

I see on this forum plenty of times somthing along the lines of "My dh wants me to be frummer/more tznius/cover more of my hair but I'm not ready for it so I just told him 'sorry it's my department, I don't tell you when to daven and learn, so I'll decide on my own what to do with my hair/clothing, etc...'"

I'm not trying to pasken what's right or wrong in this specific situation, but the way you so casualy decided that whatever your rosh yeshiva's wife does you can do is worrisome.

black sheep

Fri, Nov 09 2012, 11:58 am

didn't read all the responses. but here is my two cents anyway. for whatever it's worth.

covering your hair is a very personal thing. in fact I think tznius in general is a very personal thing. there are general rules which vary greatly by kehila and sect. but these rules (yes, halachos) have evolved over the course of our jewish history. they are not set in stone, nor were they ever. why aren't they set in stone? this is one of the areas, possibly the only area in halacha, where so much is left to interpretation and in fact every single community adheres to these halachos in their own way. I think the reason for the vagueness for tznius is precisely because it is such a personal mitzvah.

so I'm not going to preach but instead speak for myself. there are times when I am very strong and cover my hair completely (or almost completely, I never wear a tichel down to my eyebrows...) and there are times when I wear my headband fall a bit further back than is probably "halachically" acceptable. and there are times when I take upon myself to only wear tichels (which I believe is the right way to cover your hair) AND cover every hair. it depends on where I am spiritually. and this is how I serve Hashem, authentically, following the general halachos of covering my hair while also being true to myself.

so if I, just one individual, fluctuate so drastically with my ability to preform this mitzvah, how in the world can we expect an entire community of individual women to all do it exactly the same way?!?

FTR, I personally don't pull out hair to blend with my sheitel, but I do allow hair to show in front of my tichel or headband fall at times. and I can completely understand why some women blend their natural hair. it is none of my business. it is their own personal observance of this individual mitzvah.

amother

Sat, Nov 10 2012, 2:28 pm

I was sitting at a simcha a while ago (mixed seating) and opposite my husband and I were 2 newlywed couples. We chatted, ate etc, and as we were walking home I mentioned the 2 couples and my husband commented that he thought it was a bit weird that the women weren't covering their hair. I told him they actually were, but they had blended their sheital hair with their real hair so you really couldnt tell. He looked at me in totally confusion (he's not very fashion-conscious and had no idea what I was talking about). In a way, its better than not covering your hair at all, but these are 'frum' people, who would cover their hair, and do care about halacha. To be honest, it made me a bit sad that they're either embarrassed of their sheital, or want people to assume they're still single.

amother

Sat, Nov 10 2012, 6:31 pm

I was at Bumble and Bumble and this woman had a sheital with the blended hair in the front getting her hair done. The hair stylist could not even tell. I decided to get my sheital done also and they refused to work on a wig. ; ( So not fair!

It is not anyone's business how someone fulfills this mitzvah. I would like to be able to wear glamourous and gorgeous sheitals.