Why do parents NOT tip their kids Counselors??

amother

Wed, Jul 27 2011, 9:22 pm

I was actually bothered this year by the outrageous tipping amount suggested just for first half. They wanted $25 - $30 a kid just for four weeks for day camp. If I remember correctly last year is was $20 - $30 for a whole summer not just a half of a summer.
I have three kids in that camp and I didn't know what to do. My four year old had three counselors and the other two had two. I was planning on tipping all but the problem was with my four year old I didn't even know who the other two were one just took care of him and always brought him to my car. I asked my son his other counselors name's and he didn't even know them. So I tipped the one who took care of him $40 and the others none. I am tipping for caring for him not for just being his counselor in name. I also tipped my dd's counselor one $40 and the other nothing bec. my dd hated her and refused to let me tip so why should I? I think counselors have to deserve it and same thing I never even met that counselor in four weeks and I drop off and pick up every day.

Barbara

Wed, Jul 27 2011, 9:30 pm

gold21 wrote:

barbara, tipping IS optional in most places. why do u insist otherwise?

Optional, as in they're going to refuse to allow your kid to go to camp?

Or optional, as in the counselors are being paid a real wage, and are not depending upon their tips.

Same way a waitress receives less than minimum wage, permissible under US law, because it is anticipated that she will receive tips.

As I said, if that's not the way that your camp is structured, great. Then there's no need to tip.

But if some 16 year old girl is watching your kids 7 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 7 weeks, and is being paid a grand sum of $100 because hte structure of the camp is that parents are supposed to tip -- and that's the way it was at every camp I attended, every camp DS attended, and every camp I know of -- then not tipping is stiffing them.

I'm not sure why you keep arguing otherwise.

Simple1

Wed, Jul 27 2011, 9:33 pm

I always thought tipping by definition is optional, but recommended - similar to a gift.
Maybe this will clarify: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tip_(gratuity)
Camp fees on the other hand are required.

Here (in Lakewood) I never got tipping notices from the day camps. And I'm paying a fortune for the camps, I would hope that they pay the counselors what they are worth, and not pocketing all that $$$. I did however get tipping suggestions from sleep-away camps. I usually do give it, but I'm not so happy after having to carefully budget to send to the camp in the first place. I wasn't even given the tipping schedule at the time I was given the camp price. It's altogether ($85 for one child), so it is really not so easy to pay that after already paying the huge camp fee plus other expenses.

Also, just because they send to an expensive camp, doesn't necessarily mean they are well-off. There might be other considerations when deciding which camp to send to - hours, location (especially for working mothers) or even where the kids friends are going.

I actually am on both sides, because I do have a dd working. But because I'm on the other side I need to be understanding if she doesn't get tips.

amother

Wed, Jul 27 2011, 9:39 pm

amother wrote:

15 yrs ago I was a 17 yr old counselor at my local NJ JCC camp. I don't remember the hrs, I'm guessing 9-3 or so but I remember being paid $1000 for the summer. So don't assume they're all being paid a few hundred unless it's a little camp at your local school or something.

OP here. These girls ar getting under 200 dollars for 4 weeks of work. You do the math. 50 Dollars a week. Ten Dollars a day. For a seven hour day.. And Its a Huge Camp. And most of the Huge camps pay within 100 dollars or so of each other

amother

Wed, Jul 27 2011, 9:42 pm

Actually, I was the counselor that got a $10 check (trust me I needed that money to marry myself off, since my parents had none). That $10 check that bounced cost me an additional $15. Don't jump to conclusions. This was many years ago. The family that gave the check had no money issues, but when I inquired how to get in touch with them, I heard someone was not well in the family, and I did not bother them. I forgave them this money, because I knew that if I approach them they'd gladly give me the money, but I realized it was trivial in comparison to what they were going through.

So there.

JAWSCIENCE

Wed, Jul 27 2011, 9:45 pm

gold21 wrote:

barbara, tipping IS optional in most places. why do u insist otherwise?

I think it behooves all of us to inquire with a camp and a fellow parent what the policy of a camp is BEFORE sending kids to the camp. Because what was true for you or me even five years ago at camp x may not be true at camp y. If camp y pays counselors nothing because they are going to get tips you need to think of tips at that camp as mandatory and factor it into your decision about whether to send there. If you feel all these little tips add up to too much, vote with your feet and go to a camp without a mandatory tipping and let the camp know.

Poverty/lack of funds is not fun but it is no excuse to not pay. Does anyone not pay the camp or the grocer or the electric company or any other service provider because it is 'just too much for me this week'? If so do they get away with it? Look deep down - are you not paying these people because they are teens and thus have no power to do anything about it and are easier to take advantage of?

If you are truly outraged at the camp for not doing the tipping themselves/paying more then you should still pay the counselor (they had no part in instituting that policy) but deduct it from what you pay the camp and explain to them that you can't afford everything plus tips and you think the tips should be their responsibility and all the other reasons and rationals that have been posted in this thread. Why does no one do this? Is it because the camp would actually say something/refuse your kid next year/make a stink while the teen will just suck it up and be too embarrassed to tell you something?

A teen not calling you up with a bill is not an indication that tips were not required. They don't call because it won't get them anywhere except badmouthed when they get to shiduchim. Ca you imagine a 16 year old calls up parents and ask why they didn't tip her? Some yenta parent is going to go spreading the word that this kid has really bad manners and they will still not pay her. So no gain and plenty of harm. Why doesn't the camp bill? They don't even know. They screw over these kids just as much as the non-tippers. They are definitely part responsible. They do not ask if the kids actually got tipped. If someone did not get tipped they refuse to do anything about it, they still accept that parents kids next year etc. Believe me I totally agree we need camp policy reform but it is no excuse for us to act badly in the meanwhile - then we are complicit in this situation!

realeez

Wed, Jul 27 2011, 9:47 pm

I was a counselor for a few years in day camps where the parents paid probably at least $600 a month for day camp (going back about 15 years ago) and no one ever tipped. Here and there I got chocolates. The only time I felt "miffed" was when a child gave out fancy chocolates to the head counselors and my assitant and I received a plain pencil (we felt better nothing!). Only one summer in a bungalow colony did I receive $20 per child and considering my salary was $300 for the month, the $200 really helped.

I do tip counselors but I was bothered by a day a few days before camp was over called "Counselor Appreciation Day" when you were expected to bring in your tip and a card by the child (age 5). I felt like it was a bit much to make a "day" out of it though (especially when my DD forgot her envelopes at home and I had to arrange for them to get to camp!).

JAWSCIENCE

Wed, Jul 27 2011, 10:05 pm

amother wrote:

About 7 years ago at a very expensive sleep away cap in NY I got paid the following for 8 weeks of work:

Waitress - nothing. Our parents actually had to pay for the privilege of us going to work there. We did not have a counselor, we had to help in campers activities and serve all meals etc. Our day off was camp trip day so we did not go on those either. Yet somehow this was deemed worth charging our parents for. Some of us used the tips to cover part of the camp fee, but the fee was generally more than we made in tips.

Junior counselor - nothing. At least we did not have to pay to attend and work our butts off. Tips were the only form of wages we got.

Counselor - Something like 200$ for 8 weeks of work. Plus any tips we got.

And yes as Jc's and counselors were tipped our waitresses.

We agreed to this pay scale because we knew we would get those mandatory tips but secretly we all wished they would just charge it to the parents upfront and finished with. It was really mortifying to have certain parents hand you tips because some did really tacky things like ask their child in front of us "how did she treat you? how much should I tip this much or this much?" or rip a bill in half and give us half on visiting day and say we'd get the other half when their kid told them they were happy and more special than the other kids in the bunk. Most were very sweet though.

This is why I think it really depends on the camp. How much the counselors are paid may have nothing to do with how much you are paying the camp. It's best to just to clarify wit the camp so you know what to expect before sending kids there.

Depressed

Wed, Jul 27 2011, 10:08 pm

amother wrote:

Before you all jump on me and tell me to be Don Lkaf Zechus, I purposely did NOT put this in the Finances section because I am talking about kids who are going to a rather pricey Day camp which offers no discounts and scholarships, so if money was a problem, this would/should not be the place for them as there a way cheaper camps around in our vicinity.With that being said , Mothers why do some of you not tip these hard working teens who are doing so much for your little kids? At the pre school level, they are helping dress and undress you little kinderlach for swimming. they are helping them in the bathroom when needed. They are changing them after accidents. They play with them, help them eat lunch and snack, break up petty arguments, do arts and crafts, bake, sing, dance and give them a great time.

Forgetting that the camp pays them next to nothing (which is another story for another day), why would you not want to show some Hakaros Hatov to these girls who work so hard to give your kids an amazing summer? I know its not your problem that they get like 50 cents an hour. I get it. Thats the camps fault. But if the camp is sending out a tip list politely requesting that you give each one of them like 10 or fifteen dollars, is that too much to ask?

If it is, why not even give less. Just acknowledge them.
And if you cant even do that, at least write them a Thank You note.
But to totally Ignore them??????

Come on Mommys.
Im sure you were all teens too who worked very hard.

Im at both ends of the spectrum.
I have kids in camp and kids that are working. So I get it.
Please mothers. Its not to late to show these girls that you care. Please acknowledge them appropriately.

There is your answer...

Its like the old joke, Rockerfellar, once gave a doorman at a posh hotel a dime for a tip The doorman, said but you are Rockerfellar, to which he allegedly answered how do you think I became Rockerfellar LOL

Barbara

Wed, Jul 27 2011, 10:35 pm

I want to add that I agree with Jaws.

If people feel misled as to the cost of the camp, they should bring it up with the camp director. If you reasonably believed that camp cost X, its more than understandable that you would not want to pay X + tip, whether or not you can afford the tip. But the person to suffer shouldn't be the teen who worked hard all summer in anticipation of receiving a salary that is now being withheld. It should be the camp, that did not provide full information.