Have you ever tried to stop a intermarriage?

ny21

Thu, Nov 16 2006, 5:21 pm

????????

Last edited by ny21 on Thu, May 17 2012, 4:14 am; edited 1 time in total

chocolate moose

Thu, Nov 16 2006, 5:24 pm

Besidies showing extreme disapproval. No.

Mitzvahmom

Thu, Nov 16 2006, 7:14 pm

If I make it an issue, I doubt I would speak tohalf of my family..

It's going to be difficult to explain tomy kids that half of their cousins are not even jewish.

amother

Thu, Nov 16 2006, 7:26 pm

When my father was dating a non Jewish lady, we took him to speak with Rav Moti Berger from Aish Hatorah. He married the lady but I think my father's case was extra tough b/c he was once frum.......

amother

Thu, Nov 16 2006, 7:29 pm

amother wrote:

When my father was dating a non Jewish lady, we took him to speak with Rav Moti Berger from Aish Hatorah. He married the lady but I think my father's case was extra tough b/c he was once frum.......

Oy. That's prob a bitter pill to swallow for you.

W/O giving personal details, what turned him off of Frumkeit? I am sure it was not only one thing, but I think it's usually one relationship/ occurence that weights the strongest in people's minds to make that drastic a step.

amother

Thu, Nov 16 2006, 7:37 pm

momoftwins wrote:

I recently read a book called Why marry jewish ? and was not impressed.

what would you do to try to stop an intermarriage?

im not in this position - just curious.

I hear that Rebbitzen Esther Jungreisz has the know how to deal with these kinds of cases.

amother

Thu, Nov 16 2006, 7:47 pm

amother wrote:

When my father was dating a non Jewish lady, we took him to speak with Rav Moti Berger from Aish Hatorah. He married the lady but I think my father's case was extra tough b/c he was once frum.......

He grew up reform. Together he and my mother found themselves living in the midst of the orthodox community and started getting involved. My father went though a period of inspiration and tried to strengthen our family's commitment to yiddishkiet but my mom balked. My father left my mother because after over 25 years of being abused by her (verbally) he'd had enough. He then went through some kind of midlife crisis and became obsessed with his 'deserving happiness after being a martyr for 25+ years' even if that meant marrying a non-jew. Not a simple situation, as you can see.

amother

Thu, Nov 16 2006, 8:36 pm

amother wrote:

When my father was dating a non Jewish lady, we took him to speak with Rav Moti Berger from Aish Hatorah. He married the lady but I think my father's case was extra tough b/c he was once frum.......

Has wife #2 ever verbally abused him? (It's gotta have happened to some extent in every marriage). How did he react, being that he left his religion bec. of it? Does he ever show remorse, or is he totally comfortable with his decision?

Sorry for my curiosity.

ButterflyGarden

Fri, Nov 17 2006, 12:08 am

We have this situation in our family. So far I am the only cousin married to a jew. We do not attend the weddings. My mother has tried to have a heart to theart with each one but to no avail. So far all the married ones are girls,so there will be no halachic issue with the children, but I'm getting nervious about the boys. Our family is very close and for us to not attend a family simcha it makes a HUGE statement.

Nani

Fri, Nov 17 2006, 1:10 am

I have a half brother whom I met when I was 15 and he was 25. At the time he was dating a not Jewish girl. I did not really have a say, nor did I have an opinion on the matter. I was desperately in "want" of a sibling, so I did not care for him to even have 3 legs.

A few years later, both his family and mine moved across the ocean and I became frum. He brought his girlfriend to the US and married her. I was so eager to have a brother, I said absolutely nothing against him marrying her. The truth is that THIER situation did not bother me much, though the idea in general did. I just needed to have a brother.

Another couple of years later I moved to NY and we lived relatively near each other. And his wife and I got along quite well. We could spend some time together and not annoy each other.

The fact that I became frum did not bother her. The fact that I ate only kosher was ok with her too - what difference does it make?" was her attitude. "If it tastes good, and she wants this - let her do what she wants"

However, my brother, had a very hard time with all these adventures. While he never said anything of the sort, I know that it bothered him that while he married HER, I became frum.

In the end, I did not speak to them in over 6 years. They have twins who do not even know that I exist.... embarrassed

So much for not doing anything...

Ribbie Danzinger

Fri, Nov 17 2006, 5:48 am

Dear A.,
Our family is going through a crisis. It is difficult to decide whether the chief sufferer in this crisis is you or us, but of little significance. What is clear to all is that the crisis pivots around you.
I realise that you must be going through a very difficult period. Being in doubt is very frustrating, especially when your own decisions seem clear to you, yet factors which lie beyond your control seem to be the ones responsible for the existence of the doubt. I sympathise with your dilemma and I hope that it will be solved as soon as possible to the satisfaction of us all.
It may seem to you that we are the ones who are frustrating your plans and that we are the ones responsible for any unhappiness you are feeling as a result of our inability to accept your relationship with Chris. If you consider the matter honestly, however, you will realise that your own actions have brought about your discontent: your rebellion against and estrangement from the values you were educated to as a part of our family; values you received at home and at primary school. Your denial, through your own free choice, of the values and lifestyle to which you were educated, have brought you to this point in your life at which you must choose, once and for all, between one or the other - either to continue on the path you have chosen until now, thereby disconnecting yourself from your ties with our family and a heritage of thousands of years, or to reconsider your way in life and to reinforce your bonds with the family, its traditions and the Jewish Nation - your nation.
Your initial rebellion can, perhaps, be judged leniently. There may have been psychological factors involved; envy of a new family member when I was born; a feeling of being different because of individual character traits which deviated from the rest of the family, etc. Yet you cannot claim ignorance to the consequences your later actions would bring about, you must accept the responsibility upon yourself, for no-one else is to blame.
During the time you have spent living your life with the options of your choice, the rest of the family, each of us in their own way, has been reinforcing its bonds with the Jewish Nation - Daddy, Mommy, R., myself, B. and even Grandma to a certain extent (She often claims proudly that both of her children were married in a synagogue and that Uncle H. even did so twice!). Perhaps this even strengthens your feelings of frustration because you are loath to lose your connection with the family, yet you feel little inclination to get closer because you realize that this would mean a complete transformation of your present lifestyle. To get closer to the family means approaching "Religion" and "Ultra-Orthodox Religious Practices", etc.
What is Judaism?
A simple question, it may seem:
• Judaism is a religion. Right?
• Judaism is a long line of, "None of this, none of that, none of the other." Isn't it?
• Judaism is the unquestioning practice of age-old traditions, whether or not they are relevant in the 20th Century. True?
• Judaism is the conviction that One Omnipotent G-d created the world 5,757 years ago, ruling over it with His "Torah" rule book. A conviction which leaves no room for scientific proofs that the world has existed for numerous millennia and that no clap of thunder nor flash of lightening ever came to prove that beef from a cow, slaughtered according to tradition, is any preferable to whale-meat, for example. Not so?
Once upon a time there was a young boy who was given a chess-set for his birthday. He opened the box and took out each of the beautifully designed and polished pieces one by one, handling them affectionately.
"Now you be careful with that set. That's a family heirloom," said his mother anxiously.
His father, being a chess fanatic himself, enthusiastically showed the child what to do.
"Here," he said, taking the pieces from him, "You put the king here, the queen by its side… bishops… knights… rooks… pawns. The king must not move more than one square at a time, the bishops can neither move horizontally nor vertically, but the rooks can't move diagonally. Now, the knights…" The child soon lost interest in the new gift and went to look for something else to do.
"Hey, don't you want to learn to play?" Asked the father in surprise.
"No, I'm going out to play football with my mates, Dad. Thanks for the present." Said the boy, leaving in a hurry. The father sat despondently in his chair, left without a chess partner. Where had he failed?
Some time later, the boy saw some friends engrossed in a chess match.
"Ha," he muttered to himself, "chess is just a game, just a set of hard and fast restrictions which leave no room for your imagination, just one of those traditional pastimes -- like playing Solitaire when you're bored." And he went off to play Solitaire.
Anyone who's ever enjoyed chess will realize this boy's mistake. Yet who could convince him otherwise? He may never discover the intellectual stimulation he can acquire from the game, the tension, the suspense or the exhilaration from beating a well-matched partner. If he realized the joys which playing chess held for him, he would never have abandoned it so readily.
A., you have placed the family's most precious heirloom on a shelf, abandoning it with no knowledge of the value it holds in store for you.
Psychologists claim that a baby's psychological development begins with awareness of himself, gradually widening his circle of awareness to include his mother, other members of the family, friends at school and so on. This does not only mean becoming aware of those around you, for someone can be aware of other people as a baby is - just for what they can do for him - in which case he has not really developed at all. The next stages of psychological development must inevitably be taking responsibility for those people around you, beginning with oneself, of course, at the onset of one's teens, but continuing in that same spiral of gradual development which he began as a baby, through taking care of one's own family when one marries, communal service in some form or another, etc.
Where does this spiral lead to? If we intend continuing our development, then we inevitably come to a point when serving the community around us is not enough, we feel that we must somehow find a way to take responsibility for the nation to which we belong, from there it is only a short step to finding a way in which to assist the whole of the human race. If these last two ideas sound a little far-fetched then it is only because we have not yet reached that stage in our own personal development. Yet Judaism has the scope for these too and is possibly the only way in which to reach the highest stages of human development.
By denying your connection with the Jewish People in the way you are at the moment, you are preventing yourself from reaching higher on the ladder of human development. It would be comparable to a teenager who had remained at the stage of awareness of his own family members yet balked every time he saw a stranger. This is a point for serious consideration. Do you really want to stop at taking responsibility for your own family, just a step ahead of caring solely for yourself? How could you continue after that? Which community would you be interested in caring for? Which nation do you belong to? How can you help advance humanity?
Judaism is not the antithesis of a successful life - it is the pinnacle of it. Judaism brings complete fulfillment to everyone's psychological, intellectual and emotional talents in every field.
Judaism is a constant striving to achieve success -- yes, even success in a career. There are different approaches to this subject amongst the various "movements" within Judaism, but our own opinion is that being economically, technologically successful is certainly of significant importance. For the Jewish Nation to be accepted as such, we must be Jewish, first of all, but also a nation as all the nations. These two actually complement one another. Here in Israel, this is what we are striving for, to be a nation, complete in its economic, technological, military and intellectual successes - but to be a Jewish nation. This is gradually being achieved, but any Jew who relinquishes his connection to Judaism, particularly one who is able to contribute so much to the Jewish People, is a great and painful loss, like the loss of a limb which has been amputated.
It is clear to me that you do not deny your Jewish ancestry, yet what lineage do you hope to pass on to your children? Will they be able to claim to their friends, without embarrassment, "Yes, I'm Jewish"? If this does not concern you, then what point is there to your own acknowledgment of your Jewishness? Your children will be the end of the line as far as your ancestry and heritage are concerned. You may have a beautiful house, full of antiques and objects which belonged to the family, yet for your offspring they will have little significance because they lack content.
Your choice is not so much whether or not to marry Chris, it is more whether or not you accept your heritage as a Jew or reject it, leaving your own offspring devoid of a true path in life.
You have the strength of will to change all this. You are blessed with the talent for success. You have the ability to overcome the obstacles in your way to long-term, eternal fulfillment.
A. - your name, transliterated into Hebrew has the meaning of "The L-rd is my G-d." This is the secret of Judaism, "Shema Yisrael, Adon-ai Eloh-ainu, Adon-ai echad."
שמע ישראל ד' אלוקנו, ד' אחד
I am prepared to come to your country, despite the difficulties it would involve for me, to discuss the matter further with you if you feel that it will help you. You are worth it, A., we don't want to lose you.
I have faith in you that you will succeed at this point in your life as you have been successful in your studies and career up until now.
Open your heart to your heritage, A., before you pass it by.
With much love from,

Last edited by Ribbie Danzinger on Fri, Nov 17 2006, 5:52 am; edited 1 time in total

Ribbie Danzinger

Fri, Nov 17 2006, 5:50 am

Dear Chris,
Of all the family, I am the only one who has never met you. I have also heard little about you yet I know that you must be a pleasant, friendly, intelligent person - because A. has chosen you and I rely on her judgement.
It is a shame for you that you must suffer because of this relationship. Whether or not you decide to remain together there will always be an element of pain involved for you. If you decide to continue your relationship, you will suffer the pain of rejection from our family, which, although purely passive, may not be pleasant. Yet, on the other hand, if you decide to discontinue your relationship, there is bound to be the heartbreak of having lost a long-term bond with a good friend. It is unfortunate for you that you stand in the midst of a matter which is probably difficult to grasp. Is this not pure racism?
One thing must be made clear; we hold nothing personal against Chris B.; we hold nothing against non-Jews in general. The reason why we can never accept such a relationship is because the Jewish People is a whole. Just as each of the limbs of our bodies are connected and united and the amputation of any one of them -- especially one which is healthy and well -- causes pain and resulting disability, so too, when a Jew turns his back on the Jewish People, the whole "body" suffers from the results of the "amputation".
It is for this reason that we are trying to persuade A. to return to the family and its heritage. It is only fair that you understand this too. If there was a way in which your relationship could continue without the resulting amputation, we would gladly accept it, but there is no such way and none will ever be found. Judaism is the ultimate expression of unity, therefore disconnection from Judaism and the resulting disharmony is an anathema to us.
I hope you understand this and can forgive us for any pain we may be causing either yourself or A..
Sometimes one must be cruel to be kind.
With respect,

tzipp

Fri, Nov 17 2006, 9:48 am

I found this so interesting!
Letters sent between a Rabbi and a non-Jew who was engaged to a Jew.
(I guess similar to what you posted Ribbie)

http://www.chabad.org/library/.....28783

mali

Sat, Nov 18 2006, 4:20 pm

There's a new book on intermarriage:

(click to enlarge)

ny21

Sat, Nov 18 2006, 6:06 pm

: double post

Last edited by ny21 on Sat, Jan 27 2007, 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

Ruchel

Sun, Nov 19 2006, 8:26 am

I have already tried a few times.
Generally I talk about the children being confused, the number of Jews becoming lower and lower, how when they’ll be old they will become closer to their respective roots and so they will become far away, how they each have a mazal made for them who can’t be their partner since G-d wouldn’t have created a forbidden couple and how they’ll miss the opportunity of true love, how their differences will embitter them terribly over years, how it hurts the family, how the Shoah is enough and now we need more Jewish children… I will use any argument to stop that horror.

I have broken a few relationships, and pushed a few people to have their baby converted.

I have a few cousins who intermarried, I don’t know most of them, but I’m now trying to find a proper wife for one of them who B’H left his goya (unfortunately there is a kid and the mother doesn’t want it converted). The worst is that this cousin is himself a convert (Jewish father, mother born to Jewish father), I think he should know better! But no Sad

ny21

Wed, Nov 22 2006, 8:38 pm

not many good books are on this subject

Last edited by ny21 on Sat, Jan 27 2007, 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

ny21

Wed, Nov 22 2006, 8:40 pm

I met an elderly lady who was dating a non -jew

she asked a well known rabbi about this

and he said it is ok since they wont be haivng kids .

Crayon210

Wed, Nov 22 2006, 10:25 pm

Who is this well-known rabbi? That sounds crazy.

bandcm

Wed, Jan 17 2007, 5:52 pm

Numerous times!
So far we have succeeded with one guy...