Asking Cleaning Lady to pay for Damages

Chavelamomela

Thu, Jun 14 2012, 9:33 am

I have read through this thread and agree that she quit because you insulted her dignity and pride. Even if you didn't "Force" her to pay you, you brought it up that she "owes it" to you.

You live in a lovely house filled with lovely things that she has no idea the value. Sure, she's supposed to be careful. But to dock her pay for it? That's really shabby. She works very hard for her money, legal or illegal (you chose to hire her, so don't hold it against her now!).

I would hate to work for you.

My cleaning lady once through out a bag of my son's clothing that was supposed to be washed (his backpack, nice pants, etc). It was a miscommunication. I was upset, but I certainly didn't make her pay!!!

Even if you don't rehire her, I would give her a call and apologize profusely for your shabby treatment of her. I would hate to think what this woman now thinks about how "cheap jews" are that they make cleaning help pay for mistakes that happen on the job....

JAWSCIENCE

Thu, Jun 14 2012, 1:23 pm

Whether you want to have such a policy or not is up to you, but if you do think this is what you want then you need to make it clear to the cleaning lady ahead of time. From the majority of responses here (and my own personal experience) this is not the norm and thus unless you inform her she is not expecting it and that's not fair.

From her policy of charging for cancellation (strange, but she warned you in advance) it seems she has plenty of clients to choose from. So when you let her know this is your policy she can choose not to work for you, as she did.

If I was her I would also not work for you. You are hiring me to clean a house with many expensive things that I have never owned (silver) or purchased and cannot even begin to guess the value of. I would not be able to handle the fear of breaking these things. I would do an awful job cleaning from fear that using any product or taking any misstep might damage something. I'd be incredibly slow, because if I break the ridiculously expensive wedding gift you got from your great aunt by accident I know I won't be getting paid and I won't be able to come back to work tomorrow- I don't have the $400 to give you for it and would essentially have to work for nothing for months to pay it off.

This is the trade off for having other people do these things for you at such a low price - If you really cannot afford the breakages that usually happen then you need to pay top dollar (not 11 an hour) for a licensed cleaning service that has insurance for these things. If you want to pay less, you have to put up with the occasional broken item.

If it seems like she broke something from negligence then you simply don't hire her anymore.

amother

Thu, Jun 14 2012, 1:30 pm

I got a monitor from my boss to work on @ home, when moving it the corner/button got cracked off. He made me keep it & docked my pay even though it is totally useable & only 1 year old. They said they gave it to us perfect & they can't give it to another worker like that. I was so mad, but dh didn't want to make a machlokes. Now we have to try to sell it at a loss.

1Life2Live

Thu, Jun 14 2012, 2:41 pm

only read through the first 2 pages... but $40 hardly seems worth a fight. If I were your cleaning lady I would've also quit.

And btw, you didn't HAVE to pay her an extra $1 for her commute... she raised her price due to her life circumstances and you CHOSE to pay her extra instead of risking losing her. Employers do not have to pay for your transportation, but if your expenses go up, you could always ask for a raise and risk your boss saying "no". Your boss would then be taking a risk that you would find better employment elsewhere.

OOTBubby

Thu, Jun 14 2012, 3:03 pm

allrgymama wrote:

Well. Since the overwhelming majority seem to feel that I was in the wrong, I'll know better for next time.

And since I've been been called just short of racist, I am now finished with this conversation.

Thank you for your time.

While (as I've said) I agree that she shouldn't have been charged, I do feel that many of the posters in this thread have been unnecessarily harsh on you. Please don't take it personally. You are a valued poster here and I know I have learned a lot from your posts.

Please everyone, try not to let a different opinion turn into a personal attack.

ora_43

Thu, Jun 14 2012, 5:09 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

I thought it was a din that you could not ask your workers to cover the losses/mistakes.

I thought I remembered a story about this, and for once actually found it: http://www.innernet.org.il/art.....d=150

The story involving Rabbah Bar Bar-Chana, in the third segment.

It seems to imply that the halacha is that an employer can ask workers to cover mistakes if they were made through negligence. But that it's not great to do so.

sky

Thu, Jun 14 2012, 5:24 pm

bamamama wrote:

allrgymama wrote:

@Raisin: I don't know what cleaning ladies in your neighborhood make, but mine was getting paid $11 an hour. Last I checked, that's a couple dollars MORE than minimum wage. And, as I said, she increased her rate when she started needing a cab. She is most likely an illegal immigrant and not paying taxes so she walks home with everything. Her rent is probably lower than mine, her food costs are lower than mine, her clothing costs are lower than mine and so on.

Wait, you forgot: "and she's a [gentile] AND she's dark-skinned/a stupid Pole/etc."

Rolling Eyes

I can't believe almost all the responses you got rolled right by this..

I actually think you are being judgmental and racist. How do you know it wasn't a Jewish Israeli, or Irish, or Russian Jew. You have no clue from the details the nationality or the color of her employee. You are just guessing. And she never used the word stupid - YOU did. all she was assuming in the post was her employee's expenses were less.

amother

Thu, Jun 14 2012, 5:53 pm

one time when my mother owned a food store she left the store for a bit to do some errands, and left the store in the hands of a trusted and reliable worker who had done this may times before.
A guy came in and asked the worker for the $200 for the new shelves. He said my mother owed it to him and he would like to be paid. She paid. Thee were no such new shelves.
My mother took it out of her pay.

amother

Thu, Jun 14 2012, 6:39 pm

My husband works in a grocery store in E"Y. Every time his cash register is short, even a shekel (which is ridiculous since you can't give exact change, the coins don't go small enough, so being off a shekel or two by the end of the day is part of life, not a mistake), they deduct it from this pay. They certainly don't add anything if there is extra though.

shlomitsmum

Thu, Jun 14 2012, 6:58 pm

I had one CL who broke 3 dyson vacuums in one year .... I just could not ask her to pay , I'm just too shy embarrassed

she would let them run for hours ....
another killed a ccomputer by wiping it with a gross wet rag.
So for my sanity ....no more CL unless is mollymaid wich is insured Very Happy

I don't think it was wrong to mention it but it was her perogative to quit.

shlomitsmum

Thu, Jun 14 2012, 7:07 pm

Liba wrote:

shlomitsmum wrote:

I had one CL who broke 3 dyson vacuums in one year .... I just could not ask her to pay , I'm just too shy embarrassed

Weren't at least the second two under warranty??

I thought that Dyson's came with five year warranties?

I wish we would have been that organized with the last one , the first it was kijiji secoond was excess wares refurbished the 3rd sears sale LOL

since we were the stupid ones we sucked it up .... I'm the type to donate rather than exchange

imasinger

Thu, Jun 14 2012, 7:20 pm

When my cleaning person broke a refrigerator shelf, he immediately OFFERED to pay to replace it. I said it wouldn't be necessary, but I might have felt very differently if he hadn't offered and apologized profusely. It's just what I have done when I have damaged something belonging to another person, and I appreciated the response.

Allrgymama, I'm sorry you were hurt by the responses on this thread. As I see it, you got a range of feedback. Take what is helpful, and don't worry about the rest.

My 2 cents, for what it's worth, would be that maybe it wasn't what you did, but how you did it. Since she wasn't forthcoming with an offer to pay for the damages that she caused, maybe the thing to do would be to open a conversation more gently -- something like, "When I break something that belongs to another person, I usually make sure that I take care of getting it fixed. What has been your experience with other people breaking something of yours, or if you have ever damaged something belonging to someone?" That way, you can have a more general conversation before making a decision about your particular expectations in this case. There may be cultural factors at work here; without making any of the assumptions that others have been bashed for, it's certainly worth checking out.

I hope you find a new cleaning lady that you like very soon!

amother

Thu, Jun 14 2012, 7:37 pm

I am sorry but I think you are very very wrong to have asked her to pay. If you broke something by accident at your place of work would they ask you to pay? most likely no. my cleaning lady recently dropped one of the discs from my stove down the garbage disposal. She then tried to get it out but it got lodged in place. Then she turned on the garbage disposal thinking it would loosen up. In the end it cost me $100 to have a plumber get the thing out and another $60 to replace the disc. Was I annoyed? Yes. But I knew it was an accident. My cleaning lady even begged to pay for it. I told her to forget about it, it was an accident and everybody has accidents. These things happen. When you clean things sometimes break. Hey, my DH broke one of our china dishes while washing them the other day (THAT I made him pay for though Wink

) If you are worried about your candle sticks you probably should not have her shine them in the future. You are allowed to be annoyed, but, and I don't mean to sound judgmental (you asked), I think it's really really inappropriate to have asked her to pay. And now she is too afraid to work by you because what if she breaks something worth more?

Chana Miriam S

Fri, Jun 15 2012, 12:55 am

you know, just reading along this thread more, I have been thinking about my own work. I am a caterer. I work with a bunch of different people, all wonderful in their own ways and also with their own challenges. I have had some massive problems happen (and as a caterer, you know how bad it is when something massive happens) because of someone else's lack of attention, or caring or even because they have their own agenda, but most of the time, I just suck it up because, and here's the clincher- when these screw ups happen once in a while, they are likely to result in blowing the whole deal unless they are dealt with well. so, instead of blowing up with the staff, who for the most part are excellent employees (I really dont hire people who can't work well more than once) I calmly say how I would want it the next time and they keep their dignity and generally, since I am good at mitigating problems, I then deal with the problem as needed. These problems have ranged in severity and outcome but you know, I have never charged a staff member for making a mistake, because ultimately, I feel I am responsible for good supervision and if I miss that part, then it really is my fault. in the mean time, I have like zero staff turnover (which for someone in an intermittent business, is amazing) and I pay fairly and run a nice calm kitchen. they like coming to work and they want to do a good job, so when screw ups happen we learn from them. and yes, it costs, me, but I also chalk it up a little to experience.

amazingly, the way I have been working with people has resulted in other caterers considering me a go to person when they need help. I like that I have a good reputation as a respectful and consciencious employer. we all share staff in our synagogue and believe me, I know what they could be saying about me!