Is it Easier or Harder to be Religious?

Pearl

Fri, May 13 2005, 6:01 am

Quote:

[quote="Pickle Lady"] actually used my vacations for vacations instead of Yom Tovim. quote]

oh, that's soooo true! in 2005 I need to take 10 working days off for yom tov, and then I will still have to work during hol hamo'ed... Crying

the most annoying thing is that my colleagues think I am really on holiday, while I am spending them in shul, preparing for guests, sitting with guests, cleaning up after guests, and then it all starts again...I love it, but it's no vacation! while my gentile colleagues, during their holy days are lying on the beach or something like that!

1stimer

Sat, May 14 2005, 4:21 pm

amother wrote:

the frum world can be an intellectually and emotionally suffocating place.

Though there is certainly a Jewish way of approaching things, most of the day of an observant Jew is not defined by halacha. The entire area of the laws between man and man is defined only in broad terms. The variety of unique situations require continuous personal creativity.

at the same time, everything worthwhile in life requires discipline and restrictions. The great pianist has to follow the restrictions of counterpoint and harmony. A novice at the piano will just make noise, it will take years of meticulous practice to become great at it. But when he does he can use it to express himself creatively and soar to greater heights.

Additionally, just as in science there are certain facts, like gravity, which you cannot argue with, there are certain rules to the physical and spiritual world and the Torah defines them. But within this we are given great scope for our creativity and individuality.

The most individualistic personalities in Judaism are usually the greatest. They are able to combine there indivuality with the highest spiritual ideas. They are in harmony with the Torah, which is very finely tuned to the physical world so that they can react to every situation with maximum cretivity.

Judaism does not want you to give up your individuality or creativity and IT DEMANDS YOU DON'T. The world cannot be complete without your creativity.

Sorry it is so long and hope this helps amother.

supermom

Sun, May 15 2005, 5:55 am

like my grandfather always says you spend two hours cleaning before a guest comes over for a visit and then another two hours after they leave just to clean up. Is it really worth all that trouble just to have guest. For me yes. I know it is really a little bit off the topic but pearl wrote about her so called vacations so I had to write this.

chanab

Sun, May 15 2005, 12:07 pm

Quote:

I disagree. the frum world can be an intellectually and emotionally suffocating place.

it certainly CAN be, but doesn't HAVE to be.Just because communities and individuals act in certain ways, doesn't mean that essentially being frum is repressive

nicole81

Sun, May 15 2005, 7:34 pm

as a bt, I agree that it is financially easier being secular, but it is intellectually and psychologically easier being frum. yes, it is nice having saturday to do as you please and not to be constrained by the laws of kashrus, tznius, etc., but what is more important? I guess it depends on the individual, but I think spirituality provides more satisfaction than materialistic needs, and overall allows for a better, and thus easier, quality of life.

p.s. about public schools, I went to them all of my life and had an excellent education. they are not jungles, that's for sure.

Pearl

Mon, May 16 2005, 12:19 pm

Quote:

p.s. about public schools, I went to them all of my life and had an excellent education. they are not jungles, that's for sure.

[/quote]

that's true!

supermom, I didn't mean to come across as labeling yom tov a "so called holiday". I just said that my colleagues think it's vacation like going on a trip etc, very relaxing and not including any effort.
yom tov is spiritually very fulfilling, but it does include making efforts, and it can be very tyring! as wonderful as it is, having guests etc, and as spiritually fulfilling as it may be, it's not relaxing as strolling through the park, sleeping in late, reading a book etc......

supermom

Mon, May 16 2005, 1:40 pm

don't worry no offense taken here. by the way it says that if a person has a choice between life and death Hashem says a person should choose life. so what does this mean in a literal sense that life is mitzvot and all and death is a life with out it all. A person that has no basis in life and their life is some what empty they are like they are dead.

Motek

Mon, May 16 2005, 3:49 pm

1stimer wrote:

although I thought the rest of your post made an excellent point and was well-written, I take exception to the first paragraph.

Although most of an ordinary day does not have specific do's and don'ts, within the divrei reshus (permissible though not mitzva matters) that we opt to do, there are numerous specific laws.

For example, if a person is in business, being in business is in the category of "reshus" since there is no mitzva to be in business. But if a person chooses to be in business, he/she must be very familiar with the laws in Choshen Mishpat or they will frequently transgress!

613

Mon, May 16 2005, 5:36 pm

Going back to some early posts that discussed freedom, reminded me of a mashal. I heard it a long time ago, so sorry if it's not exactly accurate.

There is a leaf attached to a tree. It feels so controlled, stuck... because it can't go anywhere.... it's stuck to the tree. It sees many of the other leaves "gaining their freedom" and somehow getting off the tree and flying away to be free. Finally, one day it's turn comes! It, too falls off the tree! It lands on the ground... finally, free... but now, it's not connected to the tree- which gave it life... so it's dead!
Nimshal: We're "stuck" to the Torah. It seems like it controls our lives- we don't have the freedom to do anything. All those other ppl. can do whatever they want. But, what is life without Torah? NOTHING....DEATH!

Sorry, if this sounds a little extreme, but it's true! It's not easy to be frum but we are free to make our own decisions- mitzvos are opportunities... Ratzah H"KBH L'zakos es Yisrael Lifichach Hirbah Lahem Torah U'Mitzvos (some one who knows how to translate that well, please do so Very Happy

)

Motek

Mon, May 16 2005, 6:06 pm

0613 wrote:

Sorry, if this sounds a little extreme, but it's true

it says, "it [the Torah] is a tree of life to those who hold on to it" and "they [Torah and mitzvos] are our lives and the length of our days" so I don't think there is a need to apologize! And although it sounds a lot extreme (not a little), as you say - it's the Truth.

It rubs against our natural instincts, which is why I understand people chafe at the idea of everything having to be for the sake of Heaven, but the chafing comes from the erroneous idea that there is anything but G-d in the world! (Talk about extreme!)

It says, "ein od milvado" - there is nothing but Him, though this is not something we are all consciously aware of. If you're not aware of this reality, even intellectually, then you are able to think, "Hey, I do a lot for Him, but what about me and what I want?

The deepest galus we can be in is one in which we think that fully devoting ourselves to G-d, is anything but life and good.

yehudis

Mon, May 16 2005, 7:01 pm

As a BT, I don't know if I am qualified to participate in this thread Smile

, but I just had to say that I totally agree with 0613 and Motek. The only way to be truly free is through connecting to Hashem.

My husband always says that we are so fortunate to be Jewish and to have Torah and mitzvos. Without them, our lives would be meaningless. Yes, so we would be able to do certain things, but what for? What would be the point?

Even children understand this. My 3.5 year old once said to me, "Mommy, non-Jews don't have the Torah. What do they learn?"

gryp

Mon, May 16 2005, 7:17 pm

Yehudis, funny that you say that. (first line) since ive always been frum my entire life I thought that I cant contribute to this thread because how can I say what is easier or harder? how do I know what my life would be like if I did have the "choice"?

but just to add my two cents: Pirkei Avos tells us: "who is really free? one who is involved in learning Torah." because he is doing what his Neshama wants, and therefore his Neshama is not in galus.

0613- the leaf mashal was interesting. I guess its the same as when we say "just like a fish cant live without water, a Jew cant live without Torah."

also- the mishna that you brought that we say at the end of pirkei avos each shabbos- Hashem gave Torah and so many Mitzvos to Bnei Yisroel to make them meritorious. the word "meritorious" in Hebrew is the same root word as the word "purify" or "refine," meaning that Hashem gave the Jews the Torah and Mitzvos to purify and refine themselves and the world.

Motek

Tue, May 17 2005, 6:02 pm

1stimer wrote:

most of the day of an observant Jew is not defined by halacha.

motek wrote:

there are numerous specific laws

this is where I see the difference

In addition to the example I gave above, about a businessman, there are also the 6 Constant Mitzvos that include: knowing Hashem is G-d, not believing in any other gods, unity of G-d, love and fear of G-d, and not straying after eyes and heart, so a Jew's day is certainly defined by halacha.

or perhaps you meant something different

gryp

Tue, May 17 2005, 7:23 pm

I always learned that the reason halacha is called "Halacha"- from the word "going," is because wherever you "go" it applies. it is something that is 24 hours. thats why it doesnt sound right to me to straight out say that most of our day is not bound by halacha. I would think it actually is.

1stimer

Wed, May 18 2005, 8:47 am

most of the day is not defined by halacha. If u think of the difference between shabbos and a weekday I think u will understand that most of the day is not 'defined' by halacha. Doesn't mean that there aren't numerous halachas, just within halacha there is a lot of room for individuality and creativity.