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-> Children's Health
21young
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 Wed, Aug 21 2013, 1:38 pm
| mammala120 wrote: | | groisamomma wrote: | | MaBelleVie wrote: | | vintagebknyc wrote: | | MaBelleVie wrote: | All toddlers are only partially vaccinated. The full schedule of vaccines, administered as per recommendations, isn't complete until an older age.
Should I keep my germy infants and toddlers locked up until the schedule is complete? |
no, I think if you're following the rules, those designed by physicians and scientists, you're fulfilling the social contract. |
I'm just wondering why everyone is so concerned about their kids coming into contact with older children who are not vaccinated, while it's no big deal to be around toddlers who haven't completed their schedule yet. If there's a measles outbreak, isn't a not yet vaxed one year old in daycare just as likely to transmit it as an unvaxed five year old in preschool?
A poster was horrified that a partially vaccinated six month old would go to daycare. Well, every six month old is only partially vaxed. Where's the logic? |
Assuming the daycare workers and older siblings of all the kids at daycare are properly vaccinated, it is reasonable to assume diseases aren't in the air. If there are selfish people, however, that didn't vaccinate their older siblings then yes, the baby from that home will bring the germs with them to daycare and potentially infect the other babies.
OP obviously couldn't use "medical exemption" as an excuse because any doctor worth his salt would have offered it instead of her running around trying to find some rabbi to get an exemption from. | [u]
well excuse me but not vaccination or choosing to spread out vaccines IS BY ALL MEANS NOT SELFISH. it is the opposite. selfish people are the ones that go to doctor and let the doc decide what should go into their child's body instead of staying up all night and researching what are in those vaccines and what are better options. do u know what is in those vaccines ......how about aluminum and antifreeze ....dead fetal and dead human residue and much more. I am not against vaccines, I do vaccinate however I always wonder why rabbonim are not requesting kashrut examination on vaccines. no we don't eat it, so does it mean I can pump my veins up or apply lotion made out of pig glycerine or shellfish calcium. yeh it is easier to live with yourself and selfish not knowing. |
Based on this rant I find it highly unlikely that you vaccinate, and I think you claimed that you do just to stay safe from all the bashing. If you really do vaccinate then you must be a serious hypocrite because it obviously goes against all your beliefs.
I would hope that Rabbonim are a teeny tiny bit wiser than you, and if after years of vaccines they have never questioned it, I don't see why you feel the need to.
Oh, and your claim that those who do vax are selfish? A) That makes you selfish because you claim to vax B) Your statement made no sense. Try again.
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In the kitchen
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 1:39 pm
| Ima_Shelli wrote: | | mammala120 wrote: | | groisamomma wrote: | | MaBelleVie wrote: | | vintagebknyc wrote: | | MaBelleVie wrote: | All toddlers are only partially vaccinated. The full schedule of vaccines, administered as per recommendations, isn't complete until an older age.
Should I keep my germy infants and toddlers locked up until the schedule is complete? |
no, I think if you're following the rules, those designed by physicians and scientists, you're fulfilling the social contract. |
I'm just wondering why everyone is so concerned about their kids coming into contact with older children who are not vaccinated, while it's no big deal to be around toddlers who haven't completed their schedule yet. If there's a measles outbreak, isn't a not yet vaxed one year old in daycare just as likely to transmit it as an unvaxed five year old in preschool?
A poster was horrified that a partially vaccinated six month old would go to daycare. Well, every six month old is only partially vaxed. Where's the logic? |
Assuming the daycare workers and older siblings of all the kids at daycare are properly vaccinated, it is reasonable to assume diseases aren't in the air. If there are selfish people, however, that didn't vaccinate their older siblings then yes, the baby from that home will bring the germs with them to daycare and potentially infect the other babies.
OP obviously couldn't use "medical exemption" as an excuse because any doctor worth his salt would have offered it instead of her running around trying to find some rabbi to get an exemption from. | [u]
well excuse me but not vaccination or choosing to spread out vaccines IS BY ALL MEANS NOT SELFISH. it is the opposite. selfish people are the ones that go to doctor and let the doc decide what should go into their child's body instead of staying up all night and researching what are in those vaccines and what are better options. do u know what is in those vaccines ......how about aluminum and antifreeze ....dead fetal and dead human residue and much more. I am not against vaccines, I do vaccinate however I always wonder why rabbonim are not requesting kashrut examination on vaccines. no we don't eat it, so does it mean I can pump my veins up or apply lotion made out of pig glycerine or shellfish calcium. yeh it is easier to live with yourself and selfish not knowing. |
Yup. One all-nighter makes you much smarter than those uninformed doctors and all the useless years they've devoted to studying pediatrics.
One of the things physicians are taught is how to evaluate data and weigh evidence. I'm glad you think that going online and reading what may very well be junk science puts you on equal footing with your doctor. Would you go online to read about kosher chickens, and then feel empowered to know more than your rav about what makes a chicken kosher?
I don't get why widespread distrust of physicians has become so en vogue among frum people, that's all. I really would like to know where this attitude originated. |
It isn't only frum people. Your pediatrician has nothing to do with developing or creating vaccines, only in administering them. So no, they do not know much about them. It is like saying that all teachers know calculus because they are teachers. The distrust can stem from the fact that more than once quite a few years after vaccinating a whole bunch of innocent people the vaccine was admitted to contain for example as was in the news recently cancer. There is all kinds of junk in those vaccines. Have you ever read the ingredients list? I doubt it since I haven't yet seen a doctor hand them out before vaccinating a child.
recent example http://www.realfarmacy.com/cdc.....irus/
Also, if they actually worked and caused your body to produce antibodies against those diseases then you wouldn't need "boosters'. Etc etc whatever, you have to do what is right in your own mind, whatever lets you sleep at night. But don't judge the other side. I for one do not. I respect all mothers who are thinking and deciding whether or not to vaccinate and not just doing what the pharmaceutical companies are telling them to do because it is good for their profits. Whichever conslusion they come to, just the fact that they are thinking about it shows they care for their children and that matters most. We have to daven to Hashem that we make the right choice.
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causemommysaid
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 1:47 pm
| mammala120 wrote: | | groisamomma wrote: | | MaBelleVie wrote: | | vintagebknyc wrote: | | MaBelleVie wrote: | All toddlers are only partially vaccinated. The full schedule of vaccines, administered as per recommendations, isn't complete until an older age.
Should I keep my germy infants and toddlers locked up until the schedule is complete? |
no, I think if you're following the rules, those designed by physicians and scientists, you're fulfilling the social contract. |
I'm just wondering why everyone is so concerned about their kids coming into contact with older children who are not vaccinated, while it's no big deal to be around toddlers who haven't completed their schedule yet. If there's a measles outbreak, isn't a not yet vaxed one year old in daycare just as likely to transmit it as an unvaxed five year old in preschool?
A poster was horrified that a partially vaccinated six month old would go to daycare. Well, every six month old is only partially vaxed. Where's the logic? |
Assuming the daycare workers and older siblings of all the kids at daycare are properly vaccinated, it is reasonable to assume diseases aren't in the air. If there are selfish people, however, that didn't vaccinate their older siblings then yes, the baby from that home will bring the germs with them to daycare and potentially infect the other babies.
OP obviously couldn't use "medical exemption" as an excuse because any doctor worth his salt would have offered it instead of her running around trying to find some rabbi to get an exemption from. | [u]
well excuse me but not vaccination or choosing to spread out vaccines IS BY ALL MEANS NOT SELFISH. it is the opposite. selfish people are the ones that go to doctor and let the doc decide what should go into their child's body instead of staying up all night and researching what are in those vaccines and what are better options. do u know what is in those vaccines ......how about aluminum and antifreeze ....dead fetal and dead human residue and much more. I am not against vaccines, I do vaccinate however I always wonder why rabbonim are not requesting kashrut examination on vaccines. no we don't eat it, so does it mean I can pump my veins up or apply lotion made out of pig glycerine or shellfish calcium. yeh it is easier to live with yourself and selfish not knowing. |
vaccines dont need a hechsher because you dont eat them. besides even if you did- pikuach nefesh comes first.
I think all non vaxers should get in a time machine and go visit a time period of epidemic and watch mothers burying every last one of their children and then make the decision not to vax.
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mille
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 2:00 pm
| mammala120 wrote: | | groisamomma wrote: | | MaBelleVie wrote: | | vintagebknyc wrote: | | MaBelleVie wrote: | All toddlers are only partially vaccinated. The full schedule of vaccines, administered as per recommendations, isn't complete until an older age.
Should I keep my germy infants and toddlers locked up until the schedule is complete? |
no, I think if you're following the rules, those designed by physicians and scientists, you're fulfilling the social contract. |
I'm just wondering why everyone is so concerned about their kids coming into contact with older children who are not vaccinated, while it's no big deal to be around toddlers who haven't completed their schedule yet. If there's a measles outbreak, isn't a not yet vaxed one year old in daycare just as likely to transmit it as an unvaxed five year old in preschool?
A poster was horrified that a partially vaccinated six month old would go to daycare. Well, every six month old is only partially vaxed. Where's the logic? |
Assuming the daycare workers and older siblings of all the kids at daycare are properly vaccinated, it is reasonable to assume diseases aren't in the air. If there are selfish people, however, that didn't vaccinate their older siblings then yes, the baby from that home will bring the germs with them to daycare and potentially infect the other babies.
OP obviously couldn't use "medical exemption" as an excuse because any doctor worth his salt would have offered it instead of her running around trying to find some rabbi to get an exemption from. | [u]
well excuse me but not vaccination or choosing to spread out vaccines IS BY ALL MEANS NOT SELFISH. it is the opposite. selfish people are the ones that go to doctor and let the doc decide what should go into their child's body instead of staying up all night and researching what are in those vaccines and what are better options. do u know what is in those vaccines ......how about aluminum and antifreeze ....dead fetal and dead human residue and much more. I am not against vaccines, I do vaccinate however I always wonder why rabbonim are not requesting kashrut examination on vaccines. no we don't eat it, so does it mean I can pump my veins up or apply lotion made out of pig glycerine or shellfish calcium. yeh it is easier to live with yourself and selfish not knowing. |
Yes. ERADICATING smallpox via vaccination was a very selfish thing to do.  Perhaps we should have been more selfless and let children and adults suffer from an extremely horrible disease.
With all due respect, medical doctors and medical researchers have done quite a bit more than "staying up all night and researching." Deferring to a professional who has studied a topic extensively is NOT selfish, nor is it lazy, nor is it bad. What a terrible choice of wording on your part.
Something isn't treif or bad to use just because it sounds icky to you. (I mean, something is also not treif if it's not food -- kashrut doesn't really apply to something that isn't taken orally at all like MaBelleVie said) Gelatin comes from the bones of animals, and we use it in jello, pudding, candy, etc. Rennet, which is used to make cheese, comes from the lining of a calf's stomach. Yum! Yet both of these are kosher ingredients that we use and eat. Is it less icky because it comes from a cow, even though it's otherwise pretty comparable in terms of gross factor? Glycerol, the ingredient you mention above (as pig glycerine/antifreeze) is also used in soap. Maybe we should stop washing our hands, too?
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GreenEyes26
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 2:03 pm
| Barbara wrote: | | mammala120 wrote: | | groisamomma wrote: | | MaBelleVie wrote: | | vintagebknyc wrote: | | MaBelleVie wrote: | All toddlers are only partially vaccinated. The full schedule of vaccines, administered as per recommendations, isn't complete until an older age.
Should I keep my germy infants and toddlers locked up until the schedule is complete? |
no, I think if you're following the rules, those designed by physicians and scientists, you're fulfilling the social contract. |
I'm just wondering why everyone is so concerned about their kids coming into contact with older children who are not vaccinated, while it's no big deal to be around toddlers who haven't completed their schedule yet. If there's a measles outbreak, isn't a not yet vaxed one year old in daycare just as likely to transmit it as an unvaxed five year old in preschool?
A poster was horrified that a partially vaccinated six month old would go to daycare. Well, every six month old is only partially vaxed. Where's the logic? |
Assuming the daycare workers and older siblings of all the kids at daycare are properly vaccinated, it is reasonable to assume diseases aren't in the air. If there are selfish people, however, that didn't vaccinate their older siblings then yes, the baby from that home will bring the germs with them to daycare and potentially infect the other babies.
OP obviously couldn't use "medical exemption" as an excuse because any doctor worth his salt would have offered it instead of her running around trying to find some rabbi to get an exemption from. | [u]
well excuse me but not vaccination or choosing to spread out vaccines IS BY ALL MEANS NOT SELFISH. it is the opposite. selfish people are the ones that go to doctor and let the doc decide what should go into their child's body instead of staying up all night and researching what are in those vaccines and what are better options. do u know what is in those vaccines ......how about aluminum and antifreeze ....dead fetal and dead human residue and much more. I am not against vaccines, I do vaccinate however I always wonder why rabbonim are not requesting kashrut examination on vaccines. no we don't eat it, so does it mean I can pump my veins up or apply lotion made out of pig glycerine or shellfish calcium. yeh it is easier to live with yourself and selfish not knowing. |
Ah yes. Only those who believe that dangerous diseases like polio and small pox were on their way out, and that vaccination had nothing to do with their eradication (in the case of small pox) or decreased incidence (in the case of polio) have done their research.
Only those who believe that diseases that once killed or crippled thousands of people are relatively benign care about their children.
And, let's not forget, a medical degree, internship and residency is utterly worthless. We should never rely upon expertise. Your average person with one year of high school biology is equally able to evaluate medical studies. Oh, wait, every medical study is false, because its a MEDICAL study.
By the way, there is no "antifreeze" in vaccines. You've been listening to Jenny McCarthy again, because, of course, appearing half-naked on MTV is an adequate substitute for medical school and for, oh, I don't know, actually READING the ingredients. (Some vaccines do contain the additive 2-phenoxyethanol, which is an organic chemical compound, but it is not the same as antifreeze (ethylene glycol and propylene glycol). It is a preservative that can help prevent bacterial and fungal contamination of the vaccine.)
In other words, if you want people to respect you, stop acting like everyone other than you is a moron. |
As always, brava Barbara, brava.
I got all worked up when I saw this post but by the time I got to a computer to reply, a bunch of you had beaten me to it 
It never, ever fails to amaze me how arrogant some people are, to jettison years and years of medical studies and comprehensive knowledge. Especially young, yeshivish-educated BY-"biology" women who's scientific education is questionable at best.
Thankfully, most of the population has their heads screwed on straight. Unfortunately the ultra-frum "veldt" seems to have been given a big dose of the homeopathic/anti-vax/hate Dr.'s/etc crunch granola (see: outbreaks of almost-eradicated diseases in places like Monsey, Brooklyn and Lakewood). Not sure why. But I guess it's things like "Reb" Kaminestky being anti-vax that sort of perpetuate the myth that Rabbeim = medical professionals. (Just to clarify, the reason for the quotes around the "Reb" are because any women who has the ability to influence a massive amount of people to put their children and other's children in massive potential danger loses ever ounce of my respect.)
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Barbara
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 2:20 pm
FYI, SV40 was in polio vaccines administered between 1955 and 1963. Recently, investigators found SV40 DNA in biopsy specimens obtained from patients with cancers such as mesothelioma (lung), osteosarcoma (bone) and non-Hodgkins lymphoma (lymph nodes). HOWEVER, it was found in cancer cells of people who had received the SV40 vaccine, AND THOSE WHO DID NOT, and epidemiologic studies do not show an increased risk of cancers in those who received polio vaccine between 1955 and 1963. So the jury is still out as to the effect of SV40.
In any case, in the early years of HIV, thousands of people became infected through the blood supply. Does that mean that you would not allow your child to have a blood transfusion, today, if it were deemed medically necessary?
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notshanarishona
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 2:53 pm
Do you know how many medicines contain pig or other treif things?
Probably at least 50% of pills that you swallow contain gelatin.
Clexane (a extremely common blood thinner) comes from pigs.
I could go on and on.
Do you check the kashrus of every medicine that you take?
There is a reason non food items don't need hashgacha.
Please ask your LOR before you preach frumness for not vaccinating with non kosher vaccines.
The only things that need hashgacha are if they have taste I.e. vitamins and are not a medical nessecity.
Even those who say vitamins should have a hashgacha, it is only lechatchila and if there is a substitute available.
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BusyBeeMommy
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 3:46 pm
| Quote: | It isn't only frum people. Your pediatrician has nothing to do with developing or creating vaccines, only in administering them. So no, they do not know much about them. It is like saying that all teachers know calculus because they are teachers. The distrust can stem from the fact that more than once quite a few years after vaccinating a whole bunch of innocent people the vaccine was admitted to contain for example as was in the news recently cancer. There is all kinds of junk in those vaccines. Have you ever read the ingredients list? I doubt it since I haven't yet seen a doctor hand them out before vaccinating a child.
recent example http://www.realfarmacy.com/cdc.....irus/
Also, if they actually worked and caused your body to produce antibodies against those diseases then you wouldn't need "boosters'. Etc etc whatever, you have to do what is right in your own mind, whatever lets you sleep at night. But don't judge the other side. I for one do not. I respect all mothers who are thinking and deciding whether or not to vaccinate and not just doing what the pharmaceutical companies are telling them to do because it is good for their profits. Whichever conslusion they come to, just the fact that they are thinking about it shows they care for their children and that matters most. We have to daven to Hashem that we make the right choice. |
The bolded reinforces why you need to have an actual medical education to understand things. Who told you doctors don't know anything about vaccines? They sure as heck do, they have a thorough education about them. Heck even nurses are taught thorough basics. And yes many doctors are involved in developing vaccines, even if they are not they must be updated on the latest research based recommendations. You talk with such suspicion and paranoia. Have you ever heard of other contaminated medications? I have. Humans are humans and mistakes happen. Quality and safety protocols are constantly evolving and administration of medications and vaccines get safer and safer but it is not a perfect system and never will be. The risk of contracting an adverse reaction or permanent disability from a vaccine is miniscule, a fraction of a fraction, as it is from a communicable illness. The reason why you need boosters is because some of your B-lymphocytes don't live long enough to have memory immunity, so you need more antigens injected to develop that memory.
It's interesting how some people rely, trust and worship doctors when they or their loved one is, G-d forbid, sick and in desperate need of care, but when it relates to things like vaccines, they are suddenly smarter and more knowledgeable. They somehow view the doctors as the villains who want to make their kids sick by vaccinating them.
Oh and insulin comes from pigs so all you diabetics better die from your hyperglycemia
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In the kitchen
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 4:06 pm
I am a bit shocked at how hateful that reply of yours was. Attacking people doesn't strengthen your argument. I didn't say who is right or wrong, and how would I know? I simply was explaining why there are many people who don't trust doctors because yes there have been many tragic mistakes. Doctors do NOT know everything, they are not G-d and they are not perfect (they are only human). We can only hope they are good shluchim. Just like Gemara says, every great doctor has a place in gehennom.
I think it would be good for you to reevaluate how you reacted to my post because I found it to be hateful and out of line. I also think the other poster who keeps insulting that Rebbetzin should reevaluate what she is saying and putting out there because you do not know how or why she made that decision.
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In the kitchen
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 4:11 pm
| notshanarishona wrote: | Do you know how many medicines contain pig or other treif things?
Probably at least 50% of pills that you swallow contain gelatin.
Clexane (a extremely common blood thinner) comes from pigs.
I could go on and on.
Do you check the kashrus of every medicine that you take?
There is a reason non food items don't need hashgacha.
Please ask your LOR before you preach frumness for not vaccinating with non kosher vaccines.
The only things that need hashgacha are if they have taste I.e. vitamins and are not a medical nessecity.
Even those who say vitamins should have a hashgacha, it is only lechatchila and if there is a substitute available. |
If this is referring to my post then you completely misunderstood what I meant by ingredients of vaccines. I wasn't talking about kashrus I mean formaldehyde, mercury and the like. Again, another hateful reply. Presuming frumness? not even related in the slightest to what I wrote.
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imamiri
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 4:14 pm
| In the kitchen wrote: | | notshanarishona wrote: | Do you know how many medicines contain pig or other treif things?
Probably at least 50% of pills that you swallow contain gelatin.
Clexane (a extremely common blood thinner) comes from pigs.
I could go on and on.
Do you check the kashrus of every medicine that you take?
There is a reason non food items don't need hashgacha.
Please ask your LOR before you preach frumness for not vaccinating with non kosher vaccines.
The only things that need hashgacha are if they have taste I.e. vitamins and are not a medical nessecity.
Even those who say vitamins should have a hashgacha, it is only lechatchila and if there is a substitute available. |
If this is referring to my post then you completely misunderstood what I meant by ingredients of vaccines. I wasn't talking about kashrus I mean formaldehyde, mercury and the like. Again, another hateful reply. Presuming frumness? not even related in the slightest to what I wrote. |
No she was referring to the poster who said:
| Quote: | | I do vaccinate however I always wonder why rabbonim are not requesting kashrut examination on vaccines |
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Ima_Shelli
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 4:29 pm
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In the kitchen- people are responding strongly because it is not just another hashkafic debate or the like. This has real-world implications, specifically on outbreaks of vaccine preventable illness chv"s in our community. So 'respect for opposing views' is a bit harder to muster when you feel that the health of your own kids is at risk. It's like telling people to respect the fact that someone is putting a hole in their own cabin on the ship when in reality it could very easily be endangering everyone else too.
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5*Mom
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 4:38 pm
| Ima_Shelli wrote: | | So 'respect for opposing views' is a bit harder to muster when you feel that the health of your own kids is at risk. |
This is an argument I don't quite get. If your children are vaxed, why would their health be at risk? And if it is at risk regardless of the fact that they have been vaxed, then how would other people's children getting vaxed safeguard your children's health if you feel that their own vaccinations cannot do so? It's a bit of a convoluted argument.
(FTR, I vax, mostly, but on an alternate schedule.)
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Barbara
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 4:40 pm
| In the kitchen wrote: | | notshanarishona wrote: | Do you know how many medicines contain pig or other treif things?
Probably at least 50% of pills that you swallow contain gelatin.
Clexane (a extremely common blood thinner) comes from pigs.
I could go on and on.
Do you check the kashrus of every medicine that you take?
There is a reason non food items don't need hashgacha.
Please ask your LOR before you preach frumness for not vaccinating with non kosher vaccines.
The only things that need hashgacha are if they have taste I.e. vitamins and are not a medical nessecity.
Even those who say vitamins should have a hashgacha, it is only lechatchila and if there is a substitute available. |
If this is referring to my post then you completely misunderstood what I meant by ingredients of vaccines. I wasn't talking about kashrus I mean formaldehyde, mercury and the like. Again, another hateful reply. Presuming frumness? not even related in the slightest to what I wrote. |
First of all, there has never been "mercury" in vaccines. There was thimerosal, which is an organomercurial.
More importantly, there is no more than a trace of thimerosal in anything OTHER than flu vaccine in the US since 2003.
There is a very small amount of formaldehyde in childhood vaccines. Then again, all humans have detectable quantities of natural formaldehyde in their circulation (about 2.5 ug of formaldehyde per ml of blood).
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Ima_Shelli
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 4:42 pm
In the kitchen- Because herd immunity is negatively affected by the presence of a large cohort of non-vaccinated kids. And not every vaccinated kid mounts a completely perfect immune response, never mind the infants and immunocompromised people. When a lot if people opt out in a close-knit community, it is a setup for an epidemic where others can be adversely affected.
I'm glad you vaccinate.
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5*Mom
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 4:51 pm
| Ima_Shelli wrote: | Because herd immunity is negatively affected by the presence of a large cohort of non-vaccinated kids. And not every vaccinated kid mounts a completely perfect immune response, never mind the infants and immunocompromised people. When a lot if people opt out in a close-knit community, it is a setup for an epidemic where others can be adversely affected.
I'm glad you vaccinate. |
Let's talk about infants and immunocompromised people. It is generally understood that in certain situations, like these, for example, the risks of vaccination outweigh the potential benefits for these individuals. No one would accuse mothers of infants or the immunocompromised of selfishly considering only their own interests at the risk of endangering public health, although they may in fact be endangering the public. Likewise, there are parents of non-infants and non-immunocompromised children who feel that the risks of vaccination outweigh the potential benefits. Now you may not agree, but why would anyone feel entitled to make that decision for someone else?
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Ima_Shelli
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 5:03 pm
| 5*Mom wrote: | | Now you may not agree, but why would anyone feel entitled to make that decision for someone else? |
Because they went to med school, did residency, and are trained to make those decisions for a living.
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ally
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 5:06 pm
| 5*Mom wrote: | | Ima_Shelli wrote: | Because herd immunity is negatively affected by the presence of a large cohort of non-vaccinated kids. And not every vaccinated kid mounts a completely perfect immune response, never mind the infants and immunocompromised people. When a lot if people opt out in a close-knit community, it is a setup for an epidemic where others can be adversely affected.
I'm glad you vaccinate. |
Let's talk about infants and immunocompromised people. It is generally understood that in certain situations, like these, for example, the risks of vaccination outweigh the potential benefits for these individuals. No one would accuse mothers of infants or the immunocompromised of selfishly considering only their own interests at the risk of endangering public health, although they may in fact be endangering the public. Likewise, there are parents of non-infants and non-immunocompromised children who feel that the risks of vaccination outweigh the potential benefits. Now you may not agree, but why would anyone feel entitled to make that decision for someone else? |
Because when anti-vaxers decide the risks outweigh the benefits, they forget that the reason the risk is small is because the majority vaccinate.
Noone in the 60's was like "Oh polio. Big deal. I'm not going to catch it anyway" or "It's better for me to have it naturally."
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Bruria
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 5:12 pm
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I don't know if this is interesting for some of you, but Sepharadic chief Rabbi Yitzhak Yossef issued a statement in Israel that everyone should be vaccinated and it was supported by Ashkenazi Chief rabbi David Lau as well. Here is a link to it: http://www.ynetnews.com/articl......html
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5*Mom
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Wed, Aug 21 2013, 5:14 pm
| ally wrote: | Because when anti-vaxers decide the risks outweigh the benefits, they forget that the reason the risk is small is because the majority vaccinate.
Noone in the 60's was like "Oh polio. Big deal. I'm not going to catch it anyway" or "It's better for me to have it naturally." |
Okay, but it's no different for infants or the immunocompromised. What I'm saying is that you cannot draw the line of acceptable risk for someone else.
Cost-benefit analysis is subjective by its very nature. Only you can decide on the acceptable level of risk for your child. I cannot decide for you and you cannot decide for someone else.
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