Unprecedented look behind the scenes at Lev Tahor in canada

Cookie Monster

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 1:18 pm

imochka wrote:

It is sad that in Amrica Yidden have to get their news from a goishe prutza who knows less than the monkey in the zoo about Yiddishkeit... and then be SAD about the "sect". They may be very machmir, yes, but what is so "sad" about it. Is it not sad when women walk around, the longer the sheitel, the shorter the skirt, and the husband looks like Moishe Rabeinu, mind you... and all they can talk about is what they bought, which chassana they are going to,,,, where they went to in the Catskills... blah blah blah... ?? Why is no one besides me crying for these yidden? they are truly sad.... Perhaps you have a different way of serving H-shem, ok, (and I hope it is in a longer skirt and with kisui rosh, not flowing locks!) but... please save your sadness for those DROWNING in materialism all over the land of the free and home of the gay .... oh sorry, I think it's brave... If you listen to chiluni tv in E'Y they are oh so sad about the Chareidi population... those Torah learning extremists without normal cell phones... Please.

Goishe Prutza? This woman was so refined and Aidel!!! Sorry... Couldnt find a "Goishe" word to describe her!

myself

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 1:29 pm

imochka wrote:

Why is it sad?! The example you gave is sad too but that doesn't make this any less sad! I think it's sad especially because on the recording they seem like any other 'ultra frum' Jewish sect (besides for the women's dress of course).

Ruchel

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 1:32 pm

There used to be groups like Mea shearim, satmar... for centuries (though whether they were like today is another topic).

There was no group like Lev Tahor, hence why the founder founded it ! he tried several other groups before, from dati to Chabad to Satmar.

Why no underwear? to be very old school?

That said in some edot, 15 yr old married to much older (or "simply" 10 15 yrs older) did exist...

welcome home

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 1:51 pm

Ruchel wrote:

There used to be groups like Mea shearim, satmar... for centuries (though whether they were like today is another topic).

Really? Do you have any sources to back up your claim?

Growing

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 1:52 pm

Lets get this straight.

Chasidus was founded by the Baal Shem Tov and continued through his holy talmidim.

Chasidim generally follow a mesorah which has been handed down to them from tzadikim who were at a level of tzidkus which doesn't exist today even among our leaders. [sorry] May Moshiach greet us all shortly.

Lev Tahor cult was created by a lunatic. It is headed by a mentally unstable person who makes up things just to retain control over others. He cloaks himself in the words of Torah to hide his true sinister intentions.

He violates people's basic human rights.

Never before has a chasidish group been accused of the atrocities this criminal is accountable for.

Wearing similar clothing to chasidim doesn't turn you into a chosid.

Please lets daven that no other innocent people get carried away.

welcome home

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 1:55 pm

Growing wrote:

Chasidus was founded by the Baal Shem Tov and continued through his holy talmidim.

Weren't all the major Rabbis (Misnagdim/litvish) against the Baal Shem Tov when he first started his movement?

Growing

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 2:05 pm

Around 1736, the Ba'al Shem Tov revealed himself as a healer and a leader. His last name, which literally means "Master of the Good Name," was one that was frequently applied in Jewish life to miracle workers and healers. In 1740, he moved to Meziboz, a town near the borders of both Poland and the Ukraine, and not far from Lithuania. Disciples started coming to him from the surrounding countries, but the talks delivered by the Ba'al Shem Tov differed dramatically from lectures offered at a yeshiva; they focused far more on an individual's personal relationship with God and with his fellowman than on the intricacies of Jewish law.

The stories Hasidim later told about the Ba'al Shem Tov — usually referred to by his acronym, the Besht — invariably depict him with a pipe in hand, telling seemingly secular tales with deep religious meanings. He died in 1760, leaving behind Dov Baer of Mezrich as his successor. Shortly before his death, the Besht told the people standing near his bed: "I grieve not at my death, for I can see a door opening while the other is closing."

Many of the dominant themes in the Besht's teachings became the central emphases in the Hasidic movement that his followers developed. There were statements of the Besht, not entirely innovative, which placed great stress on aspects of Judaism that the Mitnagdim generally ignored: the heart, for example. The Besht was particularly fond of a talmudic statement, "God desires the heart" (Sanhedrin 106b), which he interpreted as meaning that for God, a pure religious spirit mattered more than knowledge of the Talmud.

It is told of the Besht that one Yom Kippur a poor Jewish boy, an illiterate shepherd, entered the synagogue where he was praying. The boy was deeply moved by the service, but frustrated that he could not read the prayers. He started to whistle, the one thing he knew he could do beautifully; he wanted to offer his whistling as a gift to God. The congregation was horrified at the desecration of their service. Some people yelled at the boy, and others wanted to throw him out. The Ba'al Shem Tov immediately stopped them. "Until now," he said, "I could feel our prayers being blocked as they tried to reach the heavenly court. This young shepherd's whistling was so pure, however, that it broke through the blockage and brought all of our prayers straight up to God."

Another ancient Jewish doctrine that was given particular emphasis by the Ba'al Shem Tov was based on a verse in Isaiah: "The whole world is full of His glory" (6:13). If the whole world is full of God's glory, the Besht reasoned, then the Mitnagdim and the ascetics were wrong in thinking that one had to turn one's back on the pleasures of the world. "Don't deny that a girl is beautiful," the Besht would say. "Just be sure that your recognition of her beauty brings you back to its source-God." If one could do that, then even physical pleasures could bring about spiritual growth.

Because the world was full of God, the Besht believed that a person always should be joyful. Indeed, the greatest act of creativity comes about in an atmosphere of joy: "No child is born except through pleasure and joy," the Besht declared. "By the same token, if one wishes his prayers to bear fruit, he must offer them with pleasure and joy." This doctrine was a strong challenge to many ideas current among Jews in the Besht's time. Many religious Jews, particularly among the kabbalists, preached asceticism, and advocated that Jews fast every Monday and Thursday. The Ba'al Shem Tov warned people against such practices, fearing that they would lead to melancholy, not joy.

To outsiders, unaccustomed to the Besht's teachings, Hasidic prayer services sometimes seemed undignified, even chaotic. In fulfillment of the Psalmist's ecstatic declaration, "All my bones shall say, Lord, who is like You?" (Psalms 35:10), worshipers were capable of performing handstands. Characteristically, the Besht defended such practices at Hasidic services with a story. A deaf man passed by a hall where a wedding reception was being celebrated. When he looked through the window, he saw people engaged in exultant and tumultuous dancing. But because he could not hear the music, he assumed they were mad.

The Besht also taught that the Tzaddik (the religious leader of the Hasidim) should serve as a model of how to lead a religious life. However, he did not emphasize the doctrine of the Tzaddik nearly as much as some of his successors, particularly Dov Baer of Mezrich, who made it central to Hasidism. Dov Baer, the leader of the Hasidim after the Baal Shem Tov's death, taught that God revealed Himself through the Tzaddik's most trivial actions; one of Dov Baer's followers said, "I didn't go to him to learn Torah, but to see him unbuckle his shoes." Dov Baer taught that the ideal Tzaddik had a closer relationship to God than the average Jew, and could bestow blessings on people. In return, it was understood that the Hasidim must bring their Tzaddik gifts.

The belief in the power and greatness of the Tzaddik became one of Hasidism's strongest-and most controversial-ideas. Hasidism's opponents charged that the Tzaddikim (plural) often enriched themselves at the expense of their followers. In the generation after Dov Baer, numerous new Hasidic groups were formed, each with its own Tzaddik, referred to as a rebbe. These rebbes became a kind of Jewish royalty. When one died, he was succeeded by either his son or soninlaw. Those Hasidic groups that established eminent family dynasties became successful. Many Hasidic groups, however, went into decline when their rebbe died and left behind less capable successors.

In their early years, the Hasidim were actively persecuted by the Mitnagdim, who feared they would become another heretical sect, similar to that of Shabbetai Zevi. But in its formative stages, Hasidism wisely put its primary emphasis on personal religious growth rather than on national salvation, and it downplayed the messianic element. This was not enough, however, to appease the Mitnagdim. Other Hasidic traits, such as their laissezfaire attitude toward the appropriate hours for prayer, bitterly provoked their opponents. The Hasidim answered that they couldn't legislate precise hours for reciting each of the three daily prayer services; they prayed with such intensity (kavannah) that they couldn't do so while looking at a watch.

With the passage of time, the Hasidim and Mitnagdim recognized that their differences were increasingly inconsequential, particularly after both groups found themselves facing a common enemy: the nineteenth century Haskala, or Jewish Enlightenment. Jewish parents who once feared that their Hasidic or Mitnagdish child might go over to the other camp, were now far more afraid that their child might become altogether irreligious.

An additional factor that lessened the HasidicMitnagdish split was nineteenth and twentieth century Hasidism's increasing emphasis on Talmud study. As the movement expanded, it put less emphasis on meditation and communing with God, and more on traditional Jewish learning. As a result, Hasidim today are no longer regarded as revolutionaries; in fact, they are the conservative stalwarts of Orthodox Judaism, easily recognized by the eighteenth and nineteenth century black coats and hats worn by most of their male adherents.

Maya

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 2:07 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I don't want to watch this clip as I don't think I can stand it, but can you clarify what you mean by the no underwear thing? Is it the men who don't wear, or the women?

Growing

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 2:07 pm

I pasted this from:
https://www.jewishvirtuallibra......html

Hope it is informative.

welcome home

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 2:07 pm

Growing wrote:

Never before has a chasidish group been accused of the atrocities this criminal is accountable for.

Actually, the Satmar community is being accused of similar things. We are hearing more and more of stories from people who grew up Satmar but we are of course dismissing it since its coming from otd'ers so who wants to hear what they have to say? Also, Satmar is seen as mainstream and normal making it almost impossible for us to believe the amount of abuse and/or criminal activity/behavior happening in that community.

Maya

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 2:08 pm

welcome home wrote:

Oh, please. Rolling Eyes

Satmar people are angels compared to these guys.

welcome home

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 2:11 pm

Maya wrote:

Oh, please. Rolling Eyes

Satmar people are angels compared to these guys.

Not according to people who grew up Satmar (and left the community).

EmesOrNT

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 2:13 pm

welcome home wrote:

Not according to people who grew up Satmar (and left the community).

If I'm not mistaken, that applies to Maya.

Maya

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 2:13 pm

welcome home wrote:

Not according to people who grew up Satmar (and left the community).

I grew up in Satmar. I don't identify as such anymore, but I know as much about Satmar as anybody can. It is not standard practice to abuse children, make them wear burkahs, and medicate them to be obedient. They have other crazy practices, but certainly not on the level of Lev Tahor.

Growing

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 2:14 pm

I'm really sorry. I prefer not to elaborate about the undergarments.

I mentioned it just so that it is very clear how totally whacko this cult is.

I didn't want anyone who is unaware to draw any parallels between chasidim, generally frum people, and Lev Tahor.

ora_43

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 2:16 pm

welcome home wrote:

Also, Satmar is seen as mainstream and normal making it almost impossible for us to believe the amount of abuse and/or criminal activity/behavior happening in that community.

Maybe by Gur Wink

.

I don't mean that as an insult, because I don't know much about Satmar either way. But perceived as mainstream? by frum Jews in general (including MO, Chabad, litvaks, etc)? No. I think the general perception of Satmar is of defining the extreme.

Whether that's accurate or not, women here who grew up Satmar can say better than me.

Maya

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 2:19 pm

Definitely extreme and not mainstream. But still not nearly as fanatical as this group.

MaBelleVie

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 2:19 pm

I think that certain groups which are now considered largely in the fold are not that far off from these types of behaviors. They are certainly moving in that direction.

myself

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 2:24 pm

Maya wrote:

I don't want to watch this clip as I don't think I can stand it, but can you clarify what you mean by the no underwear thing? Is it the men who don't wear, or the women?

I'm assuming the women. The men look pretty much like other 'ultra frum' men.

welcome home

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 2:40 pm

Maya wrote:

Unfortunately, physical abuse is standard--(there are plenty of men and women who have shared their stories of being abused) Crying

And we all know that s-xual abuse is very common with more and more people speaking up about it.

I've heard stories of satmar people being medicated as well for questioning things but I'm not sure its standard.

The only thing that Satmar doesnt do (yet) is make the women wear burkahs. But the Satmar women do have to wear seams and shave their heads which is not nec the norm when it comes to halacha in the Orthodox/Yeshivish world.