Unprecedented look behind the scenes at Lev Tahor in canada

chanee

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 5:44 pm

welcome home wrote:

Unfortunately, physical abuse is standard--(there are plenty of men and women who have shared their stories of being abused) Crying

And we all know that s-xual abuse is very common with more and more people speaking up about it.

I've heard stories of satmar people being medicated as well for questioning things but I'm not sure its standard.

The only thing that Satmar doesnt do (yet) is make the women wear burkahs. But the Satmar women do have to wear seams and shave their heads which is not nec the norm when it comes to halacha in the Orthodox/Yeshivish world.

welcome home, are you satmar or you know satmar?

Maya

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 5:47 pm

welcome home wrote:

Unfortunately, physical abuse is standard--(there are plenty of men and women who have shared their stories of being abused) Crying

Physical abuse is not more commonplace or more encouraged than anywhere else, and certainly not these days.

No one has statistics on the amount of s-xual abuse cases in the Chassidish world vs. the Yeshivish or even MO world, so don't try to make any final conclusions about this.

I agree that the shaving borders on the abusive side, but please, concern yourself with those children who grow up in real abusive situations, like those in the Lev Tahor group. Don't minimize their suffering by trying to compare them to Satmar children who, for the most part, have decent, loving childhoods. Even many of those who become disenchanted later, like myself, will still recognize that real abuse is not part of the community's standards.

It happens, just like it happens everywhere else. No more and no less.

the world's best mom

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 5:55 pm

welcome home wrote:

Unfortunately, physical abuse is standard--(there are plenty of men and women who have shared their stories of being abused) Crying

My in-laws are Satmar and live in Williamsburg. I am definitely not a fan of their way of life, but I have not met a single person there who claims to have been physically abused. None of them are medicated when they question things. Some of them wear seams and some don't. And the same way we say their shaving heads is not the norm, many people say the same about our covering our hair.

welcome home

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 6:00 pm

Maya wrote:

Did you watch the video? The Lev Tahor kids looked like they have are having decent, loving childhoods. They dont look like they are being abused or doing anything against their will. The mothers come across as mothers who care very deeply for their children and would do anything for them.

Dont minimize the suffering of Satmar kids by saying that they have a decent loving childhood for the most part. Or that abuse happens all over so of course it happens in the Satmar community. You are completely dismissing the abuse going on in the Satmar community by doing that and that isnt fair to the children who grow up there and dont have a way out.

Maya

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 6:03 pm

welcome home wrote:

LOL. You're forgetting that I am part of those "abused children," while you know absolutely nothing about them. Do you even know one Satmar person, or is all your information based on books and blog posts?

I can't believe I'm actually defending Satmar LOL

I hate them so much, yet I will not admit to them practicing child abuse as a community, especially when compared to Lev Tahor, because that is simply not true.

welcome home

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 6:08 pm

Maya wrote:

I hate them so much, yet I will not admit to them practicing child abuse as a community, especially when compared to Lev Tahor, because that is simply not true.

I can ask you the same thing about Lev Tahor--Do you even know anyone from the Lev Tahor community or are you just basing your opinions about them from blogs and videos? How do you know what the truth is about their community if you didnt grow up there?

Maya

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 6:10 pm

welcome home wrote:

You do make a good point, but I will not concede my point about Satmar.

welcome home

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 6:18 pm

Maya wrote:

You do make a good point, but I will not concede my point about Satmar.

Fair enough. However, I do know plenty of Satmar people and I've heard one horror story after the other to the point where I no longer believe anyone who says that abuse isnt standard in the Satmar community.

Maya

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 6:22 pm

welcome home wrote:

I guess I'd need at least an equal number of people here to back me up, but since only one poster has agreed with me, I guess I can't expect you to believe us.

Come to think of it, I can relate many, many stories of my childhood which would you deem "horror," and that is precisely what has turned me away from Satmar, but I still wouldn't call it child abuse in the classic sense that we are discussing here.

gp2.0

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 6:38 pm

The difference between satmar and Lev tahor is that while satmar practices and encourages some cult-like thinking and behavior, they have no real "hold" over their chasidim. They don't force chasidim to stay in the community or punish them by taking away their kids. Anyone in satmar is free to leave the community at any time. No one in kiryas yoel or Williamsburg is being forced to live there against their will.

welcome home

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 6:47 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

Did you watch the video? No one is forced to live in the Lev Tahor community against their will either. Anyone who wants to is free to leave. Anyone who doesnt want to follow the rules need to leave as well-- this is common standard in New Square and Kiryas Yoel as well.

There are stories of Satmar women being threatened to have their children expelled from school because they (the women) didnt shave the head. How is that not having a real hold over their chasidim?
http://forward.com/articles/18.....p=all

Lady Bug

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 6:48 pm

Maya wrote:

FWIW, I agree with everything Maya said.

Welcome home, you are doing a disservice to the children of Lev Tahor by legitimizing the cult's actions towards them.

welcome home

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 7:07 pm

chanee wrote:

About kids being threatened to be thrown out of school because parents don't obey chassidus rules is common everywhere. Did you read the long shietel thread?

No. The title was enough for me to not want to read it. I guess you want to say that being threatened for having a long sheital is the same as being threatened for not shaving the head, right? Because if that's the case, then you are legitimizing what is going on in Satmar the same way I am "legitimizing" what is going on in Lev Tahor as one poster pointed out. All of it is very wrong and have nothing to do with Judaism.

Growing

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 7:17 pm

Ladies!

Wife of Helbrans fled - she is damaged beyond words.
Son of Helbrans with five childen - fled -
Daughter of Helbrans - fled - cannot live on her own.

There are more people who left Lev Tahor who are too damaged to speak up.

This cult is claiming to follow halacha but in reality they are creating new halachos and their own minhagim.

Please!

There isn't even ONE legitimate recognized leader in Klal Yisroel who will defend or support Lev Tahor.

Wake up and smell the coffee!

Growing

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 7:27 pm

I hope it is obvious to everyone that Helbrans and his henchmen will not announce to the media just how they 'force' and threaten people within the cult.

For starters they will not allow Helbrans son to give his wife a Get unless he signs xyz and gives $80,000 to the cult.

People in the cult are discouraged from having contact with their family members.

When a parent chooses a school they are choosing to align with the school administration and the school has every right to enforce their rules. If a person doesn't like the rules they can change schools or open their own school if necessary.

Cookie Monster

Tue, Feb 25 2014, 7:35 pm

Maya wrote:

I second everything Maya said. And btw nobody in Satmar was ever medicated or anything.