Upstairs neighbors killing each other. HELP!!

black and white

Wed, Mar 05 2014, 11:05 pm

Just a thought...
What if it turns out to be a false alarm, and she finds out you were the one that called the police...
Very unpleasant indeed.
All I am saying is you better make sure, even if it means going upstairs to borrow a cup of sugar, let's say...

amother

Wed, Mar 05 2014, 11:50 pm

When I was little, my mom used to beat us, scream at us, throw us around, etc. None of the neighbors called. I guess they didn't want to get involved. I still wonder, why didn't they think we were worth saving? Were we worth nothing, not even a few minutes to make an anonymous phone call.

All these years, with so much work to overcome the damage that was done to us, I alway wondered how an adult could listen to a child being terrorized and do nothing. I guess now I know.

gold21

Wed, Mar 05 2014, 11:52 pm

Invite them for a Shabbos meal.
Befriend the kids. Tell them they're always welcome to stop by your apartment.
Try to get a better grasp on what's really going on.
And then, if you do suspect child abuse, you are morally obligated to tell the authorities.
If there truly is an abusive situation going on upstairs, well, then Hashem made you their neighbor for a reason. Do what you gotta do to make sure the kids are safe.
Good luck.

ora_43

Thu, Mar 06 2014, 1:07 am

amother wrote:

Op I'm in the same situation. I am too scared to call because it's a two family house they'll 100 percent know it's me

Are you sure? Unless the building is pretty isolated, the neighbors next door, across the street, etc, can probably hear yelling too.

If you hear screaming and hitting I agree with previous posters that you have to call police. If it turns out it was somehow all a mistake, no normal person would be upset that you called police because you genuinely thought their kids were in danger (embarrassed, maybe, but not hostile). If it's not a mistake - better that someone who's abusing their kids is mad at you for telling, than that they should appreciate you for keeping your mouth shut.

amother

Thu, Mar 06 2014, 2:25 am

ora_43 wrote:

Where do you live that neighbors across the street hear it? I grew up like the amother above that wondered if she and her siblings weren't even worth the phone call. We lived on a well-populated block but nobody heard it. The walls were well insulated and the doors were always closed. Unless she was beating us in the street, which has happened, people can't hear it across the street. Even the next-door neighbors didn't hear anything unless the door was wide open.

slushiemom

Thu, Mar 06 2014, 2:59 am

To the mother in the 2 family house (and the OP) can you tell the police that you're scared they might hurt you if they find out it was you? Maybe the cops can say they were patrolling the neighborhood and heard shouting, or that a passerby was walking down the block and heard the shouting and called.

Success10

Thu, Mar 06 2014, 3:12 am

As a kid I used to hear screaming coming from one of the houses on my block, usually when I was waiting for the school bus in the morning. It was usually the dad screaming.

A friend of mine also told a story where her and all her siblings had tons of friends over, all the kids were screaming and having a good time. The cops showed up at their door, a neighbor had called because of the screaming, and was concerned. The cop saw all the kids running around, laughing, having a great time. She lived in a community with houses, not in an apartment.

amother

Thu, Mar 06 2014, 3:51 am

there are many places where a family can be abused to xx and back, adn none of the neighbors can even hear. not every frum neighborhood is on top of each other.

I've been the kid in the situation where I've run out of the house so I shouldnt witness the terrible abuse going on inside, sat outside on the lawn with my siblings to divert them, and chatted with neighbors passing by - wondering if they could even dream what was going on inside the house (set back from the street). (this wasnt always an option, only when it was during the day, but there was plenty at night that there was no running away from...)

wishing they could, but dreading what they'd do if they would.

if you're in a situation that you can hear - do something. any of the suggestions are ok, besides for the option of doing nothing.

however be aware that theres usually very little that an outsider can do to change the situation. so don't get too involved.

amother

Thu, Mar 06 2014, 4:07 am

I don't know what you should do.
But I do know that I have a very good friend who is beaten and abused emotionally by her husband. She forbade me to tell the police. She said she wants to handle it on her own.

Success10

Thu, Mar 06 2014, 4:35 am

amother wrote:

If I were you, I would very creatively try to think of a way to do something, in a way she won't know it was you. And if you can't think of a way to do something anonymously, you still have to tell someone. Even if it means she never speaks to you again. People die from abuse. Seriously. You should start by going to their Rav or your Rav for advice, but do it quickly.

Last edited by Success10 on Thu, Mar 06 2014, 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

chavs

Thu, Mar 06 2014, 5:34 am

I will repeat what so many ppl said to call the police.

The right reasons to call the police is because you want to do what you can to keep the possible victims (be it children or adults) safe.

The other reason is that you'll have to live with knowing that you might be the only adult in these kids lives who was capable of doing something, but stood by. Can you live with that?

Listen, if it turns out to be nothing, then no harm would have been done. As many others pointed out, the police wont give away who said anything.
If I walked passed a house and it sounded like abuse was going on inside, I hope I'd call the police and I'm sure I'm not the only one. For all these ppl know, it could be a passer by.

MrsButterfly

Thu, Mar 06 2014, 5:50 am

If you go to the school and tell them, it won't be anonymous. Just saying. I guess you can call the school anonymously. If you hear screaming and children crying, it doesn't sound like they're having a party- something needs to be done about it. Inviting them over was a great idea! But what if something happens before then?

I'd report anonymously, only because I have a baby. It's better to be off the radar if you have children to take care of and protect..

wispalover

Thu, Mar 06 2014, 7:41 am

black and white wrote:

How is this helpful? OP is clearly already scared of calling in the police- your thoughts will just make it worse. Going to borrow a cup of sugar? You mean in the middle of yelling? Right. Because that won't seem obvious at all.

amother

Thu, Mar 06 2014, 7:48 am

OP- one of my neighbours was terribly abusing an animal in their care. We were in a 2 family house, I saw them beating the animal and I knew they would know it was me who reported it. I did it anyway, because I couldn't stand seeing an animal abused and not do anything about it.
I would even more so report for a child. I know it is really scary, especially when you feel guilty and like they will know it is you, but much better safe than sorry.

True story: When I was a kid, I had the most horrendous, horrendous temper tantrums. The kind that were the stuff of parents nightmares- where I cried for hours on end. My parents used to put me in the garden; until one day when some well meaning neighbor called the police. The police came and checked me and I had a single bruise on my knee and they then questioned my parents for hours about this bruise on my knee (incidentally, my parents were very anti corporal punishment and I was just your basic spoiled brat whose parents weren't the greatest at discipline!) Anyway.. we all laugh about it now. If there is truly nothing going on, there wont be a problem. If there is... you may well have saved a few lives.

amother

Thu, Mar 06 2014, 9:08 am

I'm not sure what the right thing to do is. However, unless you understand the language, how do you know what the screaming is about? And btw, how do you"hear" abuse? Do you hear someone being hit? I doubt that. Did anyone "hear" my mother hitting us with wire hangers or make holes in my brother's head with a phone? How would that be heard??
Can you clarify how and why you believe there is abuse?
Perhaps reach out to an organization that can guide you or investigate/call the police in your behalf. If your neighbors are innocent (and even if not), they have every right to be mad at you for mixing in. This is not to to say you shouldn't do anything. If you truly believe there is a problem (unless you've personally witnessed it, then you personally should make the call) reach out to sovri or another organization that can handle this better than you.
Hatzlacha doing the right thing.

amother

Thu, Mar 06 2014, 9:10 am

Not op (I'm the two family house one) but I heard 'put the knife down!' and then another person say 'I'm calling the cops if you don't put that down' you can hear protesting.
Sorry for your situation :-(

amother

Thu, Mar 06 2014, 9:22 am

amother wrote:

Which is specifically why I said, unless you understand the language. (Thanks for the kind words.)
In your situation, if you heard such direct quotes, you are prob halachically obligated to do something. You know that someone's life is in danger.