Is this consequence ok?

SingALong

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 12:06 pm

Dd age 3 used to eat her lunch as we were walking out the door to school. After a few times I started making her an extra morning sandwich. Now she has her breakfast of eggs or oatmeal or toast at 7ish, sandwich 9:30-10, and another sandwich at lunch at 1. Maybe your DS can use an additional sandwich between breakfast and lunch.

5 is still too little to control his life and the food he gets. If he's hungry he can't just access extra food in camp. You're an adult, who if you feel hungry can go to a fridge/pantry or store to get/prepare yourself food. I would have sent him with his breakfast food and another sandwich just in case, maybe throw in an apple or a peach. No need to cook up pasta and grill cheese and chop up a salad, just smear some cheese or peanut butter on bread.

As for a fast day, perhaps talk to your Rav about how fasting is difficult for you, so much that you feel too weak to prepare more food for your kids. He may say to fast 1/2 day or not at all. DH tells me not to fast besides Yom Kippur and tisha bav while caring for kids. Even on tisha bav I'll ask a Rav about fasting if nursing or pregnant.

Your son will be ok for today, but for future prepare him extra food as he seems to be hungry or going through a growth spurt. Kudos for preparing lunches the night before but kids have unexpected needs, and we sometimes need to just do more even when it's hard!

amother

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 12:19 pm

morah wrote:

Well bully for you, some of us are poor fasters. I happen not to be fasting today as I'm nursing, but I will be in 3 weeks and I'm quite dreading it. No, I can't cook and bake on fast days, not even early in the day.

I'm not saying everyone has to cook and bake on fast days, but she can't fix him an extra sandwich? What if her kids are hungry? You can't make kids fast because of the adults. If it's that bad, prepare extra sandwiches and kid-friendly foods that they can help themselves to, in advance. It being a fast day is no excuse not to allow a 5 year old a sandwich.

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 12:49 pm

I agree that you fasting should not be a factor here. A factor in how challenging parenting will be for you, yes. Not a factor in how severe the consequences will be for a child who causes you to be involved in food more than you would like. If you find that this is a pattern perhaps you should find out whether fasting is the correct thing for you.

I would not hold a five year old accountable to that extent. If a child that age took food meant for his lunch and he knew it, I would remind him of such, and make him help prepare another sandwich for himself. Where were you when he was eating it?

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 3:01 pm

mandr wrote:

I don't see what the problem is. For example, if a child doesn't finish is supper, I have no problem with saying "Ok, then later you will be hungry and I won't be able to give you a snack."

Is that what you tell yourself too?

amother

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 3:10 pm

groovy1224 wrote:

Kids don't usually eat because they're bored (that's an adult habit), so if he's taking extra food I would assume it's because he's hungry.

I know this is only a side detail here, but just want to say that I don't think it's only an adult habit... My kids definitely do think about food when they're bored. My 3-yr-old has even said to me, "I'm bored... Do you have any food?"

On days that she had nothing particularly exciting to look forward to (guests or outings), I found that her breakfast could last halfway till lunch time. As soon as I started sending her to school, her breakfast started taking 10 minutes and she was totally fine.

Same thing with long car trips -- they want snacks. It's not hunger.

teddyb

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 3:26 pm

mandr wrote:

I don't see what the problem is. For example, if a child doesn't finish is supper, I have no problem with saying "Ok, then later you will be hungry and I won't be able to give you a snack."

lets say you wanted a sandwich for breakfast would you then not eat anything for lunch? (or only some stale cereal work had to offer)

thats what was being proposed here.

and what if a kid ate all his supper and then was hungry an hour later?

imasinger

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 3:26 pm

I think if he ate his lunch, your givng him the breakfast was a fine idea. I imagine you didn't need to confuse the camp folks with details. Better just to say, "here's his lunch."

Probably it also would have been better not to bring up with DS that it was a fast day. Depriving him of food now as a punishment may complicate his feelings about fasting later.

It seems like the real issue was that you had limited time in the morning, and the situation was one more chore when you were already stretched.

Since this is not the first time it has happened, I suggest workng it through. Was the intended breakfast harder to get for DS? Or maybe was he afraid to take anything that didn't have his name on it? Maybe you could leave him a note (with pictures) telling him what he is allowed to take for breakfast the next morning. Or, as another poster said, make it obvious by leaving something out.

Last edited by imasinger on Tue, Jul 15 2014, 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

EmesOrNT

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 3:39 pm

If he's old enough to make his own breakfast, which my kids were at that age too, then he's old enough to know not to take what was prepared for his lunch. The consequence was appropriate. I would not have brought him food, since you said the school has cereal - which is a breakfast food.

Shopmiami49

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 4:12 pm

In the long term, you need to set yourself up technically better so that ds does not feel the need to take food that he is not allowed to. Set something aside with him together the night before, or make sure that there are certain things he knows he is always allowed to take.

In the short term, if you have already told him he is not allowed to take food on his own and with that information, he still went ahead and took it, you did NOTHING wrong by sending him without food. You are simply letting him feel the consequence of his own actions. By bringing him food, you are essentially giving him the message that it really is ok what he did and he won't be inclined to stop himself from doing it again.

That said, if you were asking for an appropriate consequence before already sending him without food, I might have suggested somethign different. Maybe something along the lines of sending him with the basics and no snacks. Or plain bread instead of a sandwhich. Something to help him understand that you won't put forth extra effort to make him a new lunch when he disobeyed you, but you are still not letting him go hungry.

But still, I am totally ok with your decision because they offer food at camp.

Maya

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 4:35 pm

I think punishing with food sets a child up for unhealthy eating habits and/or disorders later in life. I haven't seen any proven studies; it's just my opinion.

That said, I also don't allow my child to have dessert or a snack if he didn't finish his dinner. My kids eat dinner pretty close to bedtime, though. I myself don't eat anything after dinner for health and diet reasons.

Shopmiami49

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 4:40 pm

amother wrote:

Why can't the consequence be he makes his own sandwich? A 5 year is more than capable, assuming everything is in reach or you have a stepstool

I totally agree with this and have done it myself, although it sounded like for OP this would have been even more difficult for her this particular time. Also you have to know your child. One of my kids would be absolutely thrilled at the prospect of making his own sandwich and it it would not be a consequence but rather a reward for disobeying the rules.

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 4:53 pm

I don't think it's a terrible consequence at all. People run their homes differently. My 3 year old knows that if he leaves the table during supper, I take the food away, and he doesn't get any more food until breakfast. It's effective. I cannot have children roaming around the house and demanding meals at all times of day. OP doesn't HAVE any extra bread today to make an extra sandwich. And there is nothing wrong with expecting a 5 year old to eat the right food at the right meal. I probably would have done the same thing.

OP, when your son comes home, ask him how lunch was etc, and reinforce that he didn't get his sandwich for lunch because he at it in the morning. (because without the reinforcement and understanding, there's no point.)

The yardstick I often use - if I give my child a consequence and he is disappointed and understanding, I use that as validation that I am on target and fair.

Mirabelle

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 4:56 pm

Ok my twins are this age, so I can picture the scenario exactly.
I would probably be very annoyed and show my annoyance, but I would have packed another lunch.

I personally dont feel comfortable punishing with food. I'm glad that you brought him something!

amother

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 4:57 pm

I don't understand why he needs to be PUNISHED. He was in the mood for a sandwich - a perfectly healthy option. He ate it. I didn't hear that he smashed it on the floor or threw a tantrum about it.

The only thing he needs is to understand that Mommy doesn't make sandwiches on short order, so he can feel free to make himself another one or take breakfast food for lunch.

I don't like denying my children healthy food because it's not on my schedule, but I do draw the line on preparing or cleaning up after them when it's not mealtime.