Why is this ok with everyone??? (Double buckling)

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:10 am

amother wrote:

Maybe because I think the weight limit is rediculous. I wasn't 100 lbs until I was in seminary....
Who exactly is having 6-8 kids all in boosters?
Who is making a skinny 10-12 yr old sit in a booster?!
Not me sorry. They use a seat belt

Um, me??

I have 6 children. Oldest is 9. He's in a booster (BTW the limit to 100 lbs isn't saying that children must be in a booster till that weight, that just means how heavy the booster can withstand to -- the law changed from 8 or 80 lbs in my state to 8 or 4' 9").
So, yes, all 6 children of mine are in boosters or car seats. This helps anyone from even trying to double buckle BTW Wink

I will say I am not makpid on him in booster seats in others' cars for short distances, as he suffers socially and it's not a legal liability. The buckle fits him ok if he sits up very straight, but it's not good enough for long distances or when he's casual in my car. The point of the booster is to be a belt positioner, an artificial pelvis -- to hold the lap belt (and sometimes the shoulder belt) in the right place.

amother

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:12 am

[quote=raisin]Would you not buy diapers or food for your kids if you were short of cash?[/quote]
No, we wouldn't. We don't have credit cards. If the money isn't there, it isn't there.

B"H I bought cloth diapers many years ago and they are good backups if we are out of diapers. (The time investment is too much for an ongoing basis.)

We get food stamps which helps for food, and bli ayin hara we have never run out of food completely, although some of our "meals" might not deserve the title.

Like I said, it's the 6yo who is not in a booster. Not that I have no kids in carseats. Replacing all of our seats in a car that we can't keep long term anyhow, while still having to pay off the ill-fated 8-seater and struggling to deal with the basics - that "only a few hundred dollars" isn't "only" anymore. The only seats that I know FOR SURE would be properly installable 3 across are Diono Radians, upwards of $200 each.

OK, I think I've been my defense attorney for long enough Smile

Replacing 2 belt-positioning boosters with 3 harness boosters that can fit 3 across - not an option right now.
Replacing minivan with bigger vehicle - we already tried that. Not an option to try again, at least not until we've paid off the last one.
Staying home permanently - not an option. We tried that too.
Asking for tzedakah - don't think so.
Davening and doing our hishtadlus to make this whole situation moot - we're trying!

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:13 am

amother wrote:

I'm the mother who said she can't afford a booster. Let me clarify. This is for a 6 yo who is sitting with a lap belt in the center seat. The 3/4 yo are in boosters. The problem is that those two have belt positioning boosters, and then I would need 3 boosters across in the back row. I would need to purchase 3 harness boosters (more expensive than belt positioning) because otherwise it is impossible to reach the buckle. Yes, we've tried to put a small booster there.

Are you offering to sponsor three harness boosters? And make sure they can be properly installed 3 across in a Kia minivan? And what of the two poor kids that have to double buckle?

I'm impressed that you'd keep your kids at home permanently until you can afford a larger car. That means NO park, NO grocery shopping, NO seeing Bubby and Zaidy, NO other frum kids to play with, NO going to a friend for Shabbos (they are too young to go alone), NO trips. And it wouldn't just be the summer, it would be all year. We are not paying for camp, for those who are wondering.

I'm not sure why I'm getting so defensive here - I think I feel like the mother in the "sending daughter to public school" thread. I'm making an admittedly bad decision because I don't feel like there is any choice. All of those being armchair quarterbacks might be better served helping others with solutions instead of judging them harshly.

Just one thing- is the six year old sitting with a lap belt only, or with a lap and shoulder belt? A lap belt without a shoulder belt can be safely used to strap in a harnessed car seat, but it is not a safe option for any other passengers. If there's no shoulder belt you might consider moving some seats around.

Also, there are some extremely narrow, affordable boosters. Let me know if you want suggestions. I'm not here to judge, but if you can get your kids safer, I'm happy to help.

Chana Miriam S

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:15 am

amother wrote:

In Ontario, the law is until 8 years old or a certain weight, whichever comes first but it's nowhere near 100 lbs. my guess is the car seat rated till 100 lb is good for special needs kids too.

amother

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:17 am

I'm the amother who misunderstood about the 100 lb limit. The law in my state is up to 80 lbs as well. Guess what, I was 80 lbs in 8th grade, and no I will not make my son (who is very skinny like I was) be in a booster until 8th grade. As it is he gets bullied enough bec of his size.
And for the record, not a single one of my kids' school bus even had seat belts for the kids- not even for the little pre-schoolers. I always teach my kids to sit on the bus, but I think they're prob the only ones who do.... Now that is really dangerous.

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:20 am

amother wrote:

A school bus is designed in a way that makes it a million times safer than a car. OK, not a million, but a lot. Same for a city bus or a train.

Which state requires a booster until 80 lbs regardless of age or height?

Barbara

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:23 am

amother wrote:

We used this until DS was close to 9.

http://www.amazon.com/Graco-Ba.....pPl=1

No one could see it unless they were inside the car, so no teasing.

imasinger

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:24 am

amother wrote:

I'm not sure why I'm getting so defensive here - I think I feel like the mother in the "sending daughter to public school" thread. I'm making an admittedly bad decision because I don't feel like there is any choice. All of those being armchair quarterbacks might be better served helping others with solutions instead of judging them harshly.

These matters are not solved overnight. But the bolded is a whole different statement from, "that's the best I can do, so leave me alone." The poster on the public school thread came looking for help to avoid the decision, and was unable, after really exhaustatively looking into every option, to fnd a way.

She said it was a short term decision, and they will be doing their best to put themselves in a financial position to afford dayschool again.

How about you? Are you committed to savng up for a car big enough to safely seat your family, just as soon as you possibly can swing it?

In the meantime, how many boosters, and how many kids? Maybe we can help you find a workable configuration.

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:24 am

Harmony Literider is $13 at walmart and is rated from 30 lbs and up (most others are only for 40 lbs and up -- considering I have a 35 lb 7.5 yo it's a must for me Wink

) and it's the narrowest on the market and can fit in spots others can't. It's well liked safety wise (and even has a shoulder belt threader).

There is no excuse not to have your children safe. I would never consider a vehicle that didn't have enough seats for my family to sit safely if we were travelling together. But I'm spoiled that we were able to afford a used car like that. We only have 1 car, but if we were a 2 car family, we'd just have to go in multiple vehicles if we didn't fit in one.

As far as the camp, I've also been shocked at some of the practices in camps. I spent a lot of money spending my boys (7.5 and 9) to a professional camp this summer that takes safety into account. For my girls, there is no double buckling, but I cannot be certain that every kid that should be in a booster is, but my child is. I didn't think of the angle of children being a danger to mine by ch"v being ejected, but my kids have switched camps now and I am not even sure there will be trips for the next 2 weeks. (They are 4 and 6, my 2.5 yo just doesn't go on trips ever, and that saves the issue since she cannot even be in a booster.)

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:25 am

Barbara wrote:

We used this until DS was close to 9.

http://www.amazon.com/Graco-Ba.....pPl=1

No one could see it unless they were inside the car, so no teasing.

This is even better http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/.....dir=1

You can barely see it.

ETA it's rated for 60 lbs and up so it's not for lightweight kids. But perfect for older kids who are that weight.

Last edited by MaBelleVie on Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total

vintagebknyc

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:27 am

MaBelleVie wrote:

I'm going to disagree with you here. regular school buses are not safer than a car, they merely have seat belts. buses and trains? no seatbelts, no safety, not in any US city where I've taken public transport. not even on amtrak

also, not directed at you, are these backyard daycamps legal? I'm not accusing, just asking, because I'd thought they weren't.

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:27 am

amother wrote:

No, we wouldn't. We don't have credit cards. If the money isn't there, it isn't there.

B"H I bought cloth diapers many years ago and they are good backups if we are out of diapers. (The time investment is too much for an ongoing basis.)

We get food stamps which helps for food, and bli ayin hara we have never run out of food completely, although some of our "meals" might not deserve the title.

Like I said, it's the 6yo who is not in a booster. Not that I have no kids in carseats. Replacing all of our seats in a car that we can't keep long term anyhow, while still having to pay off the ill-fated 8-seater and struggling to deal with the basics - that "only a few hundred dollars" isn't "only" anymore. The only seats that I know FOR SURE would be properly installable 3 across are Diono Radians, upwards of $200 each.

OK, I think I've been my defense attorney for long enough Smile

Just wanted to mention the Harmony Defender 360 is very narrow and is in and out of stock often on walmart.com for under $100. That might be a decent option.
(Also if you have any babies, sometimes getting a rear facing in a 3 across even if it's inconvenient to climb in and buckle works well)

amother

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:28 am

MaBelleVie wrote:

Thank you, MaBelleVie.

The 6yo is lap belt only.

Here's the layout of the car:

Front seats - DH and me, if we're all going, or older DC if DH isn't there, to avoid double buckling.

2 captain seats - baby in carseat and older child/ren (if we are all there, and need to double buckle). We need an older child, not an installable carseat, in at least one of the captain seats or else we will be unable to fold down the seat to help the back row with seat belts. The aisle is very narrow.

Back row - 2 belt positioning boosters near the windows, one 6yo in middle - lap belt only. We tried putting the boosters next to each other, but then the buckles can't be accessed when the seats are securely installed - too close to each other. The only way I can imagine this working is by putting 3 harness boosters across, so the buckles need to only be done ONCE on installation, using whatever tools or tricks necessary, but the bench is pretty narrow to begin with, and the 6yo is pretty cramped as it is.

The van is an older model Kia Sedona if that helps.

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:33 am

amother wrote:

You can also look into the Ride Safer Travel Vest as an option for your situation.

I would put the infant seat (is it an infant seat or convertible) in the middle of the back row and just climb into buckle there, with boosters (or 1 booster and 1 travel vest) on each side. What year is it, I can look up the back row measurements and help you with seats. I have done successful 3 across for numerous vehicles in the past.

I feel you -- you're stuck between a rock and a hard place, but I think we might be able to get you out with minimal investment (not $500 on new seats Wink

)

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:33 am

vintagebknyc wrote:

Even without seat belts they are much safer. They are heavier and the seats sit higher up, which is a huge advantage in a collision. They also use a system called compartmentalization, where seats are packed closely together and covered sith thick foam to absorb impact and prevent kids from becoming projectiles. The national safety council rates school buses as 40x safer than a family car. This is based on hard numbers.

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:33 am

MaBelleVie wrote:

I was just about to say exactly this. Very Happy