Why is this ok with everyone??? (Double buckling)

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:36 am

amother wrote:

Thank you, MaBelleVie.

The 6yo is lap belt only.

Here's the layout of the car:

Front seats - DH and me, if we're all going, or older DC if DH isn't there, to avoid double buckling.

2 captain seats - baby in carseat and older child/ren (if we are all there, and need to double buckle). We need an older child, not an installable carseat, in at least one of the captain seats or else we will be unable to fold down the seat to help the back row with seat belts. The aisle is very narrow.

Back row - 2 belt positioning boosters near the windows, one 6yo in middle - lap belt only. We tried putting the boosters next to each other, but then the buckles can't be accessed when the seats are securely installed - too close to each other. The only way I can imagine this working is by putting 3 harness boosters across, so the buckles need to only be done ONCE on installation, using whatever tools or tricks necessary, but the bench is pretty narrow to begin with, and the 6yo is pretty cramped as it is.

The van is an older model Kia Sedona if that helps.

What are the names of the current seats and boosters that you own?

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:38 am

kb wrote:

7 seater van amother, would it work to just buy a seatbelt extender for the middle seat? (Sort of like what they give you when you bring a car seat on an airplane) and then you'd be able to strap in early with a booster (I think)

No booster seat allows the use of an extender. There are tricks to make buckles more accessible though.

amother

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:45 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

You can also look into the Ride Safer Travel Vest as an option for your situation.

I would put the infant seat (is it an infant seat or convertible) in the middle of the back row and just climb into buckle there, with boosters (or 1 booster and 1 travel vest) on each side. What year is it, I can look up the back row measurements and help you with seats. I have done successful 3 across for numerous vehicles in the past.

I feel you -- you're stuck between a rock and a hard place, but I think we might be able to get you out with minimal investment (not $500 on new seats Wink

)

The vest is a good idea, although I had read that it's not reliable for regular use.

The baby is in a convertible, and theoretically could be put in the back center, but the problem is reaching the buckles for the boosters. Any seat I put there will make it virtually impossible. We practically can't reach the buckles when the 6 yo is sitting.

As for those accusing me of not trying to change the situation, when we have the 8-passenger paid off, we will IY"H be able to work on getting a bigger vehicle. We were responsible and got a bigger car when we needed one, but can't afford to replace it every 6 months!

We did consider getting two smaller cars, but there is no way to afford it right now - not the actual car purchase, nor the insurance, nor the gas. (At the price point we'd be looking at, you don't get twice the MPG with a smaller car.)

imasinger

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:45 am

amother wrote:

I'm the amother who misunderstood about the 100 lb limit. The law in my state is up to 80 lbs as well. Guess what, I was 80 lbs in 8th grade, and no I will not make my son (who is very skinny like I was) be in a booster until 8th grade. As it is he gets bullied enough bec of his size.
And for the record, not a single one of my kids' school bus even had seat belts for the kids- not even for the little pre-schoolers. I always teach my kids to sit on the bus, but I think they're prob the only ones who do.... Now that is really dangerous.

I agree with you about buses. And I think it is terrible that your DS is bullied because of his size. If you post about that in a new thread, you may get some good support and ideas of how to help.

But I wonder about one thing.

I could understand if you said "the carseat weight law is unreasonable." But that's not what you put here.

Do you really want to be making parenting decisions about safety based on the taunting of bullies?

vintagebknyc

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:46 am

MaBelleVie wrote:

Even without seat belts they are much safer. They are heavier and the seats sit higher up, which is a huge advantage in a collision. They also use a system called compartmentalization, where seats are packed closely together and covered sith thick foam to absorb impact and prevent kids from becoming projectiles. The national safety council rates school buses as 40x safer than a family car. This is based on hard numbers.

I stand corrected, sorry.

amother

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:52 am

MaBelleVie wrote:

What are the names of the current seats and boosters that you own?

I believe the convertible is an Evenfllo Titan, and the boosters are similar to this: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Even.....70284 (got through insurance).

Car isn't here right now, so I can't check to confirm.

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 12:19 pm

amother wrote:

So you have the titan, and those two boosters. What I would do is put the two boosters in the captain's seats. Yes, it will be annoying to push one on and off the seat every time you need to fold it, but it isn't installed- you're using the car seat belt, so you don't have to deal with that much.

Put the titan in the center of the back seat. It will be squishy to get in there to buckle the baby in, but the titan is the only seat that can safely be used without a shoulder belt. You can try putting the baby in by climbing in the trunk- sometimes that's the best option for a rear facing baby in the third row.

Now we only need to find a narrow seat for the six year old. What are his height and weight? You can cut off the end of a pool noodle (99 cents) and slide it over the stalk of the buckle for his seat so he can have better access to it and it won't get stuck under the titan. Same for the passenger riding on the other side of the titan.

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:00 pm

Basya wrote:

Can someone please explain why they are ok with double buckling? it's against the law and dangerous to boot! don't tell me "nothing's gonna happen" or the short drive excuse. how would u live with yourself if something did???

why why why are people so ok with this??????

Have you ever exceeded the speed limit? Why?

Also, I'm not sure double buckling is illegal in every state.

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:02 pm

SplitPea wrote:

Option 4. Explain to th camp what they are doing is Against the law and endangering the lives of children. Even if YOURS is buckled your child is still in danger in a crash because of the other improperly buckled children. Ask them to ensure every single child is buckled in accordance with the LAW or you will be forced to speak to a rav. (Ie get permission to talk to child services etc)

Please make sure double buckling is in fact against the law in your state. Find the actual language of the law. Or you will look silly.

mandr

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:09 pm

What chills my bones is the sight of a huge school bus rambling down the road with all the windows wide open and twenty little kids' heads sticking out of those windows, shrieking to high heavens.

That's very safe, right?

You gotta choose the middle way. You can't be on top of every trip in a child's lifetime that's done in a car. I know more children who died by being crashed into than by not having been strapped into a proper restraint system. You can try to be the safest possible while the child is in your car but once it's involving other people's transportation, I think it's weird to try to micromanage everything. Do you also go check the food served at your kids' daycamps? I looked up many sleepaway camps online in the city data and found them all to have disgusting violations like rodents in the kitchen, unclean good machinery, improper temperatures of food that should be refrigerated/froozen/cooked. But still, when my kid will go to sleep away camp, I won't send along with him 300 freeze-dried meal packets to be warmed up with distilled water. Live and let live.

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:11 pm

Too much drama here.

I sometimes double buckle kids (two non-booster seat kids in the middle with one long lap belt), but I always give the mother that option first. Like: Hello, Mrs. P. If you want your daughter to come to the trip in my car, please keep in mind, she will have to double buckle.

I also exceed the speed limit on occassion. Okay, every day, by about 5 miles.

I don't understand how double buckling with booster seats works. I've never heard of that.

Last edited by marina on Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:12 pm

Many states requires passengers to be properly restrained. Use of a seat belt contrary to what is stated in the car manual would not constitute proper restraint. In addition, not using a car seat or booster as required by law (varies by state) is also obviously illegal.

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:13 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

Again, in order to be illegal, this sentence would actually have to be in the law. I hate to be nit picky but claiming something is illegal is really a big deal if it is not actually illegal. It would be like saying: Feeding your kids nothing but junk food is not only immoral, but it's also illegal.

It could be illegal in Op's state, I just don't know where she lives or where the exact law is for her state.

Last edited by marina on Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

mandr

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:14 pm

I was cleaning the paddings of my baby's car seat the other day and I had to use the manual to figure out how to re-attach them. Anyway, it said that the child should not be wearing a coat while in the seat. It said if you must put on the coat, it has to be done after the child is strapped in, with the coat on backwards. That seams nuts to me. It gave an alternate option: to use a blanket. But blankets are such choking/smothering hazards to very young babies, which is so not safe either. I put my child in a coat and then put him into the car seat. Sue me.

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:18 pm

mandr wrote:

The reason for this is that a puffy coat will compress in an accident and there will be a huge gap between the child and the harness. That is equivalent to buckling the baby in with really loose straps, which is obviously unsafe.

A thinner fleece coat or something similar that is not puffy is perfectly safe. Many people warm up the car the then take off the puffy coat to put the baby in.