Paid vacation days for my babysitter/cleaning lady

amother

Mon, Mar 02 2015, 7:27 pm

It took me a long time to find live in help that I felt was good - and being that I had 3 kids in 2 years, live in help was desperately needed.
The job is no joke and I know she works hard especially she is in her 50's but she basically dictated to us that after working a year she was entitled to paid national holidays (agreed) and 2 weeks paid vacation and 5 sick days. She's with us 3 or 4 years so we have gone along with this for a few years. What she does to make extra money is instead of taking 2 weeks off in the year, she asks us to pay her instead - so she makes 100 a day and would get 1000 dollars for 10 days off so she says instead she will work through her vacation days and basically make 200 a day instead. Last year around Feb she asked for the vacation days and we paid it to her and I knew was risky bc she could technically quit anytime and I already laid out her vacation days but she didn't. She did use up her 5 sick days though and those bother me because I do not know anyone else who gives paid sick days too.
She asked for a raise last year and we said we couldnt afford it.
Now this year was first year we went away with kids and she had paid vacation while we were away and we have same thing for pesach too. I was wondering if I could tell her between these 2 paid vacations which happen to equal her 10 days vacation that she can have her 5 sick days with that but we arent paying 2 weeks paid vacation on top of it all. She asked my husband for the advance keep in mind she wants that 1000 dollars now - I know changing how you do things can upset her so how do I handle this.
Ps She took today off - so there goes one sick day.

MagentaYenta

Mon, Mar 02 2015, 7:35 pm

If I am hiring someone to work in my home, my contract permits 30 days of personal leave with pay to be used their descretion. I review their performance every 6 mos. Raises are given on a performance basis every 6 months. I also withhold, anf provide for exigent circumstances. That being said I put myself in the the workers place when I determine my standards. I'm no better nor honorable than the person I employ. I also with hold taxes, since as their employer I can make certain demands that I could not as a contractor.

granolamom

Mon, Mar 02 2015, 7:39 pm

so basically she wants a $1000 bonus because she prefers to work than to take vacation days. so you have to decide if you want to play along. you might say no, you want her to have the time off so she could recharge, that's why employers give vacation, it boosts productivity. or you could go along with her so that you keep her happy and dont lose her. she sounds pretty sure of herself and assertive which makes things tricky for you but otoh it probably also is an indication that she's been very well liked by her former employers so shes probably good at what she does.

your bigger problem is that you want to dictate when she takes her vacation. technically, its still vacation time and not a bonus because it sounds like you never said to her 'so instead of 10 days we will give you a $1000 bonus at the end of the year' in which case she gets to choose when to take her days. if you choose to go away, I think she should still get her salary. what if she took her 10 days last month and then you went away next week? would you not pay her for next week? I think you should unless it was discussed previously. in theory, you could have discussed it in the beginning, that you determine vacation time but sick days are her call. or something like that.

the way you have it set up, its very much to her advantage. the way I see it, the best you could do now is tell her that if she wants to take vacation TIME now thats fine, but if she wants the $1000 you will give it to her either at the end of the year or split it and give her 1/12 of it each month (or half in June, half in Dec). lots of jobs have you earn vacation days that way, you cant take your 2 weeks right away, you have to accrue them.

no matter what you do, stay calm, and try to be generous and kind. she watches your kids.

amother

Thu, Mar 12 2015, 6:01 pm

Sorry to come back here (Op here) but here is where I stand:
She isn't off for pesach in the end. She has her 2 weeks vacation and 5 sick days and national holidays.
She wants us to pay her 1000 dollars now instead of taking 2 weeks vacation this year. We did do that last year.
It makes me worried because we are only in March and her year is Jan - Jan so I have no guarantee after I give the thousand dollars to her she wont quit this job in May, June, July etc.
However, I do think she will be upset if we only give half now and when she gets upset she is very vocal. Also, I do not want her quitting now - I dont feel shes the best but I also cant go through the search for someone new now.
So do I keep her happy and drain our bank account to pay this to her now or do I risk her being unhappy and do half?

PS it feels like a bonus but its not, it is her vacation days - she still gets one weeks salary as her bonus at end of year.

granolamom

Thu, Mar 12 2015, 6:15 pm

well, if she wanted to take her vacation days this year instead of cash, and she wanted the time now, would you give it to her? if so, then give her the cash and hope for the best. worst case scenario she leaves before the year is up and you learned something for the next time you hire someone.

although, you wrote 'drain our bank account', if things are tight right now, I dont see why you cant tell her you dont have an extra $1000 right now. the other hand of this is that if she took her time off and you'd hire a sub, you'd have to outlay the cash right now too. any way I look at this, it seems that she has the upper hand here. next time you'll be more clear when you set things up.

amother

Thu, Mar 12 2015, 6:55 pm

If she took the time I do not think I would hire a sub for all 2 weeks. I would prob need a cleaning lady for a few days of that time.
The problem with telling her we cant afford is that I then feel she will look at every penny I spend and being she lives here she can see what shopping I do etc. But yes, we do not have huge savings at all and paying her 1500 this week will leave us on the low end....

granolamom

Fri, Mar 13 2015, 9:41 am

amother wrote:

I dont see why you cant tell her that. you have big expenses coming up and you dont have extra cash now. you can offer to give her some now and some later or the lump sum later, or the days off now.
but I dont know her, if youre getting the feeling that she will leave or take it out on the kids if you dont give in to her demands, then you should probably find the cash, give it to her, and either accept that this is the way it is or start looking for someone else.

Frumdoc

Fri, Mar 13 2015, 11:05 am

Surely the only logical way for her to demand payment in lieu of vacation is at the end of each 6 or 12 month working period, where you agree that if she did not take x days leave then she is paid those days extra. Otherwise she can call any random week her holiday week worked, and demand extra pay.

This is how it works in some large businesses, where they agrre that if due to work pressures that you were unable (not volunteered not to, but actually prevented from) taking your full entitlement of vacation, they will pay you a wage for a certain number of those days, often just half of them, occasionally all.

She has you over a barrel. You need to renegotiate her contract and formalise the arrangement.

sweetpotato

Fri, Mar 13 2015, 11:58 am

What you need is a contract that lays all this out so there is no ambiguity. If an employer agrees that an employer than trade in unused vacation days for extra salary, that employer can't then say "Oh, we're a little tight on cash flow right now...how about in a few months." At the same time, in many employment contracts, vacation days are accrued monthly, so you don't get the full two weeks at the start of the year. Some employers do allow employees to trade unused vacation days for pay, others don't (I think it depends on state law). Some allow them to be carried over year to year, some don't. If you have a full time, live-in employee, you should have in writing exactly how paid vacation and personal days will function.

amother

Fri, Mar 13 2015, 3:26 pm

You all make good points. I think it's too late to change our ways for this year on her but I will have to approach her in December if she is still with us and make a contract. At this time we will do her vacation days over the course of a month which to me is just so early in the year I have to hope she stays for the year once I lay it all out (she did last year so.....but I am having a baby Gd Willing soon which will increase her work......)
This is def not the way things should be done. We were stupid for allowing it in the past.

granolamom

Fri, Mar 13 2015, 4:24 pm

amother wrote:

not stupid. inexperienced. so its just the cost of tuition in the school of experience. money well spent if you learn from it.

JAWSCIENCE

Fri, Mar 13 2015, 4:55 pm

In my neighborhood it is very common to give two weeks and any Nanny that doesn't get it will quickly become disgruntled. It is important to know your area norms - because you can be sure your nanny will know them within a few days. However it is also the norm for these two weeks to be divided, one week the family decides and the other the employee decides. We also give five sick days and national holidays. The vacation days have to be settled a few months before being used as this allows everyone to make arrangements for their time. So if you had a family vacation coming up you should have let her know in advance that this would be counted as her vacation. But to spring it on the nanny a couple weeks in advance or after it has happened is not right.

In terms of exchanging the days for cash, if you do not have the cash or are taking a vacation without the nanny anyway it is your right to say " we prefer you take the days this year. We don't need the extra help. " you are not obligated to give thousand dollar exchange. Simply say that last year you actually needed the help but this year you are able to make other arrangements and it is better for you that way.

You also do not have to give all vacation cash upfront. It can accrue over time kind of like the arrangement your husband came up with. We only gave in to a demand for advance cash once, and we made it clear that instead of being an advance this was simply the holiday bonus coming early and do not expect an additional bonus (holiday bonus being another expensive area standard) and honestly the nanny was happy with this. They realize asking for cash advances is unreasonable even if they are "vocal" about disappointment. Honestly anyone who seemed very bossy etc is not a good idea unless you also have a strong personality to match. It's just not a good shidduch in terms of employer/employee relations. Someone will always feel put out.

Sanguine

Sun, Mar 22 2015, 11:16 am

In Israel the law is 2 weeks paid vacation every year (plus vacation money). Now, I'm only talking about a cleaning lady 4 hours a week (not full time worker), but my cleaning lady doesn't take the vacation, I pay her two extra weeks salary and I'm glad. Doesn't seem fair for me to choose her vacation based on what's good for me and imagine if she chose these two weeks (erev Pesach) as her vacation!!