Lessons of crime and punishments

gp2.0

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 6:35 am

amother wrote:

were you one of those locked in, or one of those locked out?

Locked in...here's what happened, we hid in the closet as a Purim joke, so the teacher walked into a half-empty classroom. Instead of laughing it off she called the principal, who said "well if you want to be in the closet, you can just stay there" and she locked the closet with us inside. After five minutes she made us recite an apology and we were let out. But generally as Maya said, the punishments for girls tended toward emotional or verbal.

Even if it is physical punishment, it's a far cry from my DH's descriptions of being hit on the palm with a ruler until his hand was swollen and black-and-blue. What I found even more horrifying was my DH's description of a boy his age who was put into the "slow track" for no reason other than the principal didn't like his father. The smart, capable boy was reduced to learning at a lower level and being labeled as "not the greatest learner" when it came to shidduchim. For no reason. Breaks my heart.

amother

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 7:27 am

gp2.0 wrote:

All of this is just sickening. Locking kids up in closets, putting them in weaker classes, beating them, etc. Its a crazy world. How do these people become principals? Where are the parents? The teachers?
I am assuming that you need to be tested and diagnosed with a learning disability in order to put someone in a resource learning class. So who tests these kids? Psychologists? Social workers? If so, they are mandatory reporters and would have to report whats going on. If thats the case then the govt would be doing something about this abuse but if its not the case then how is the school getting govt money for a resource room?

gp2.0

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 7:44 am

amother wrote:

Did you read the excerpt in this thread where shulem deen talks about falsifying student reports to get title 1 benefits?

amother

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 8:06 am

gp2.0 wrote:

Did you read the excerpt in this thread where shulem deen talks about falsifying student reports to get title 1 benefits?

Yes but if you want services from the board of ed then you need to get tested by someone who is licensed. So do the schools have fake psychologists or social workers, speech therapists etc. testing these kids? Otherwise, how would we know that the kids actually need help? And if the psychologists and social workers etc are fake then wouldnt the govt know that and penalize them for fraud/practicing without a license? Something seems very off here.

gp2.0

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 8:13 am

amother wrote:

I doubt it was an official learning disabled class. After all they were learning gemara at that point, special ed tutors don't cover that...

4everonadiet

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 8:55 am

Maya wrote:

Read what I wrote.
She is dismissing the severity of it, diminishing the outcry that is needed for this to change. Our little kids are being beaten black and blue for the tiniest of infractions, and that's a fact. The longer this is "questioned" and minimized, the longer it will continue.

I didn't read the rest of the thread, but I believe boys are not getting routinely beaten in cheder anymore. The mothers are not allowing it. I'm talking about the chadorim I know, out of town chassidish.

Reminds me of the story of my mil marching into cheder to tell off the rebbe for beating her son.

Maya

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 10:13 am

4everonadiet wrote:

That's what we would like to believe, but it's not true.
Firstly, in name Chassidish chedarim like Satmar and Bobov, the hitting policy is officially in place. Perhaps there are some rebbes here and there who use other methods of discipline, but nobody is warned against hitting.

Second, even in those neutral chedarim where mothers speak up and the cheder has officially said no hitting, the policy is not strong enough to prevent rebbes from doing whatever they want.

amother

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 10:15 am

gp2.0 wrote:

I doubt it was an official learning disabled class. After all they were learning gemara at that point, special ed tutors don't cover that...

Perhaps thats true for the kid you are referring to but what about the kids in Deens article? I work with disable kids and if they need or want services then they have be evaluated by a licensed professional. If you get services at home then it will be provided by a licensed professional as well. You cant fake being licensed since the govt audits them as well. And they are very strict about it, people need to fight to get these services because the govt is doing everything possible to cut services. So how is Sqver faking it (especially since services where provided by non-licensed, uneducated indivuals) and getting away with it? I would think the govt would be just as strict with them (sqver) as they are with the rest of the Jewish community.

amother

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 10:21 am

Maya wrote:

Amother, do you work with any Chassidish kids or families or institutions?

Yes. The only people that dont need to be licensed are respite and com hab workers but even for those services the kids/adults who get these services would have been officially diagnosed by a licensed professional. Deen did not specify that he did respite or com hab but he did say he was supposed to tutor those kids so it seems as though he was officially providing special ed services which needs licensing.

LiLIsraeli

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 11:42 am

Amother I think you are confusing a few different things. He is talking about resource room tutoring. It does not have to be done by a licensed professional. I know someone who did it as a side job while in school for something else. He tutored kids (although he actually did tutor them in what they needed, not fraudulently as in this case) in a yeshiva, and the BOE paid for it. We're talking regular mainstream kids, not special needs.

MagentaYenta

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 11:45 am

LiLIsraeli wrote:

And certainly it is possible to defraud when providing for special needs. The LI case is a good example. I'm sure more will be revealed once school districts respond to the state audits as well. It will be a long time before the truth is revealed.

amother

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 11:48 am

LiLIsraeli wrote:

Who decides that these kids need the resource room? Dont they have to be evaluated by a licensed professional in order to qualify for such services? And if there is a licensed professional involved then arent they mandatory reporters and must report any child abuse? And if they dont or didnt report child abuse then wouldnt they lose their license?

nywife

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 1:17 pm

amother wrote:

How long ago did this incident take place? Maybe the qualifications have changed since then.

MagentaYenta

Mon, Mar 16 2015, 1:57 pm

amother wrote:

It's likely these tutors were funded from grants under No Child Left Behind. It's my understanding that tutors under this program were not required to have minimum standards. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) Need was established by poverty levels in school districts. Parents or teachers could recommend children to these tutors. (IRRC)

As to mandatory reporting, it's not something that has been shown to work well among private Jewish schools as documented by some abuse cases reported in the mainstream press.

How this worked in areas like KY or Lakewood will probably come out in a few years. Districts must respond to state audits first. It's a very lengthy process.