Iriya gan scandal | Imamother

amother

Black

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 8:13 am

imasoftov wrote:

Did the previous uninformative threads about this mention it only happened in municipal ganim? If it did, I missed that.

That's also what happened in previous threads

I missed previous threads. What exactly happened?

Sanguine

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 9:14 am

amother wrote:

Because they felt the problem was country wide, not enough intervention, too many immigrants and unknowns showing up

It wasn't country wide. It was Chareidi wide. Too much secrecy and too much consulting with a Rav instead of police. No Vaad Horim arranging shifts to keep watch.

I still think this should move to LII though it will get nowhere since just like last year's two long threads there were two mothers claiming to be parents of victims but unwilling to share facts. No one will say anything (I think it wasn't specifically Iriya Ganim last year).

We yelled and yelled how can it be that the parents aren't bonding together to take shifts to make sure that no child leaves a gan without a parent? Then we were told it happens in the Tenders (Vans) to Gan and school too. The Rav, Ganenet, driver, special ed teacher... Are all involved citywide but we can't be expected to call police who may actually speak to our children. Or maybe to women. The mothers and Ganenot are holding the secrets but don't even tell each other.

It's all on LII. There's no point in involving women from outside of Israel. No one will talk. The Rav told them not to share details. Ask away - You won't get answers.

I am not Chareidi Bashing. Those are the facts. Wouldn't happen in a DL gan or school.

amother

Powderblue

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 9:21 am

Sanguine wrote:

I hear, and everything you are saying makes sense. So horrible!

amother

Babyblue

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 9:27 am

Send at your own risk. No sane mother will share their facts online, and if they did, half the people here would say 'but prove it.' It doesn't mean your kids are safe.
Private ganim are forming which are implementing lots of safety precautions.

amother

Cyan

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 9:45 am

We spoke to Rabbanim who were quoted as being Rabbanim "in the know" and they told us not to worry at all. They said there were some kids who were abused over the last few years, but not anything more than any other place in the world. They said we have to live normally and teach our children about personal safety, as every parent should.

They organized many classes to teach parents how to speak to their kids about personal safety (with Rabbi Yaakov Horowitz, Dr. David Pelcovits and others)and the police are investigating the claims, but so far have no solid evidence.

The issue was that there are 2 therapists, not psychologists - one is a speech therapist, and they were convincing parents that their kids were abused. It became a whole hysteria, with no proof and no evidence to even show the police.
Apparently, the therapists also told these parents that their child's lives come first and they have to work on helping their child and not use their child as a way to find the perps, so they should not bring their children to the police or admit in public that anything happened to their child because this would ruin their children even more.

amother

Babyblue

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 10:08 am

amother wrote:

my family was affected, and I didn't go to those rabbonim or to any non-psychologist. So, sorry, keep researching.

MagentaYenta

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 12:43 pm

amother wrote:

my family was affected, and I didn't go to those rabbonim or to any non-psychologist. So, sorry, keep researching. The police told me not to bother reporting because my child is young.

That's crazy. It merely give's the perps more opportunities to victimize more children.

ora_43

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 1:02 pm

Sanguine wrote:

It wasn't country wide. It was Chareidi wide. Too much secrecy and too much consulting with a Rav instead of police. No Vaad Horim arranging shifts to keep watch.

Too little understanding of how child molesters actually operate. I don't doubt that there's at least a few child molesters in every neighborhood. I seriously doubt the stories about children being sold into s-x slavery by their ganenot, drugged, abused, and sent home in time for lunch.

There have been stories like that before. And they turned out to be untrue. Not that there isn't molestation in daycares ever, but not like that. It doesn't make any sense. There's no way to say this without it sounding horribly creepy, but... if someone wants to attack kids, there at least a dozen easier ways to do it. (Just for the drugging part to work, they'd need at least one doctor.)

And the ganenot... how much would someone have to pay you to sell a child to be abused??? I think we'd all say that no amount could ever convince us to do such a horrible thing. But the story is that *all* the staff in multiple ganim agreed to this?

To amothers who say they think their children were abused - I'm not saying you're wrong about that part, just that the specific rumors going around of how abuse happened are very unlikely.

Tablepoetry

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 1:06 pm

amother wrote:

my family was affected, and I didn't go to those rabbonim or to any non-psychologist. So, sorry, keep researching. The police told me not to bother reporting because my child is young.

I'm flabbergasted. You actually went to the police and they told you that? There are indeed some incompetent cops out there, but this tops it all. I would complain right away to the supervisors. And to the papers.

Yael

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 1:23 pm

I am aware of many details of what is happening simply by being in touch with mothers of affected children.

Please do not say that the rumors cannot possibly be true because they sound farfetched. isnt that what everyone used to say when a child would be molested by a respected rav? now we have more awareness. please dont hurt the mothers of suffering children by saying what happened to their children couldnt possibly have happened.

in addition please dont say that the reason this is happening is their fault because they didnt watch their children, didnt go to the police, covered it up, spoke to a rabbi, went to a certain therapist, didnt warn everyone else, etc. etc.

its easy to say if only you go to the police then this can all stop. sadly the reality is far more complex than this.

may you never be made aware of the details.
for those of you who are aware and afraid, or affected and suffering, my heart goes out to you. If you pm me I can direct you to helpful sources.

ora_43

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 1:46 pm

There's a pretty big difference between not believing that one specific rabbi could commit a s-x crime, and not believing that virtually every religious gan in Israel's capital city is complicit in abusing kids.

That first thing has happened before, and if people choose not to believe it could happen again, they're being idiots.

Some people have named a certain Talmud Torah in Ramot Daled as being the place where organized s-x crimes apparently happened. I can believe organized pedophilia happened at one institution.

And nobody is saying it's parents' fault their kids were attacked because they covered it up. Just that it's incredibly irresponsible not to let other parents know where exactly the largest pedophile ring in the history of the country is apparently operating.

So again, Ramot Daled. That's what I'm going to assume, until someone is finally willing to speak up and confirm/deny.

amother

Coffee

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 1:54 pm

As much as I am having a hard time believing that every Iriya gan and so many schools are being targeted, I am still having a hard time being comfortable with sending my 3 year old to Gan this year.......... I am really torn. I feel that keeping her home, I am acting ridiculous, but sending her when even though I did not hear any stories about her Gan, is still somewhat irresponsible.
Anyone gets this.......???

Last edited by amother on Wed, Aug 26 2015, 1:02 am; edited 1 time in total

terrace

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 2:16 pm

Abound I totally get you the gan I was enrolled in didn't either have any stories, if it can happen in one place, can't it happen in another? We're the teachers assistants guards or janitors involved in this? How far reaching were these criminals? We don't have the details and I don't feel like an informed mother who can make an informed decision so I've decided to keep my dd home.
The stories send a shiver down my entire body I can't imagine the pain these children and parents are going thru.

amother

Blue

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 2:18 pm

Sanguine wrote:

Interesting. The last thread said it was happening to DL as well and all over yerushalayim. So don't change facts around because you didn't believe it.

justcallmeima

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 3:12 pm

Yael wrote:

Yael- Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I understand from what you're saying is that you are aware that this has indeed happened. If that is so, do you not have an obligation to notify Child Protective Services in the city(ies) where the abuse occurred? Am I not understanding something correctly?