Iriya gan scandal | Imamother

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Iriya gan scandal

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View latest: 24h 48h 72h

cnc

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 6:14 pm

justcallmeima wrote:

Yael- Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I understand from what you're saying is that you are aware that this has indeed happened. If that is so, do you not have an obligation to notify Child Protective Services in the city(ies) where the abuse occurred? Am I not understanding something correctly?

Sounds to me like the authorities are aware of the situation. A previous poster said that she went to the police.

ra_mom

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 6:54 pm

justcallmeima wrote:

I didn't realize Yael was a mandated reporter.

And I'm sure the authorities in Israel will take a phone call from an individual in Canada very seriously.

cnc

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 6:58 pm

ra_mom wrote:

I didn't realize Yael was a mandated reporter.

And I'm sure the authorities in Israel will take a phone call from an individual in Canada very seriously.

This too. What makes Yael more of a mandated reporter than you?

amother

Copper

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 9:08 pm

I have A LOT of information on this topic because unfortunately my child has been a victim. The reason I am posting is to try to save your children from harm.
NUMBER 1 - DO NOT SAY THIS IS NOT TRUE IF YOU DO NOT HAVE PROOF TO BACK IT UP!!! Many many people are saying that it is not true. Did they do any research? Did they speak to any parents of children who are talking? Did they speak to rabbonim or therapists who have spoken to parents of children who are talking?
NUMBER 2 - IF THERE IS EVEN 1% CHANCE THAT IT IS TRUE - WHY ARE YOU TAKING A RISK??? This is what makes me crazy... Everyone hears stories, they don't know if they should believe it or not so to make life easier they don't believe it and now they don't have to do anything about it.
NUMBER 3 - YOUR CHILD IN YERUSHALAYIM IS NOT SAFE!! !YOUR CHILD IS A TARGET! This is a real cult that is operating all over yerushalayim and they want to get your kid and every kid. They have rebbeim that are involved, parents of children from schools, babysitters (teenage), and morahs, tender drivers etc.
NUMBER 4 - POLICE AND ISRAELI GOVERNMENT MEMBERS KNOW ABOUT THIS - but for some reason they can't or don't want to get involved. It's not so simple to call the police and they will catch the guys.
NUMBER 5 - INSTEAD OF LISTENING TO WHAT YOUR NEIGHBOR TELLS YOU - DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH!!! Call 10 authority figures in yerushalayim (rabbonim, therapists) and see what they have to say. Don't listen to what I tell you because I'm anonymous so why should you listen to me. Don't only call one because everyone has their own opinion and the one you call may not believe it.
NUMBER 6 - If you still don't believe what's going on call R' Shmuel Kamenetsky. He believes that this is true.

amother

Cerulean

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 9:38 pm

Is this only in Yerushalayim or in other cities?

If the police are not taking action, then why are the parents not taking action?

Parents should be getting together to be on guard outside the ganim and schools during the relevant hours.
Parents should also be insisting that they are present inside the ganim making sure nothing happens.
If there's enough people clubbing together, then surely this can have some effect.

What about taking it to the press if the authorities are not listening?

I have absolutely no idea about any of this, it all sounds so horrific. I'm just a worried parent thinking aloud...

amother

Scarlet

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 10:04 pm

amother wrote:

NUMBER 3 - YOUR CHILD IN YERUSHALAYIM IS NOT SAFE!! !YOUR CHILD IS A TARGET! This is a real cult that is operating all over yerushalayim and they want to get your kid and every kid. They have rebbeim that are involved, parents of children from schools, babysitters (teenage), and morahs, tender drivers etc.

This is the part that makes it all so unbelievable. I honestly don't buy it.

amother

Copper

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 10:29 pm

Quote:

This is the part that makes it all so unbelievable. I honestly don't buy it.

Well that's why I said to stop being so lazy and do your own research. Instead of "not buying" it, call a few people and hear what they have to say and then maybe you will start "buying" it before your kid is harmed.

ora_43

Sun, Aug 23 2015, 11:59 pm

amother wrote:

Quote:

This is the part that makes it all so unbelievable. I honestly don't buy it.

There are real, professional people who think the story of a cult kidnapping and drugging kids is not true. It's not so simple as to "do your own research."

Of course, the part where zero parents have publicly named names or given details doesn't help, either. What people is Scarlet amother even supposed to call?

imasoftov

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 12:03 am

Yael wrote:

its easy to say if only you go to the police then this can all stop. sadly the reality is far more complex than this.

may you never be made aware of the details.

for those of you who are aware and afraid, or affected and suffering, my heart goes out to you. If you pm me I can direct you to helpful sources.

I disagree with the secrecy. We all should be aware of the details which belong on the front page of every newspaper, with names and identifying details of the victims removed, but not of the perpetrators if they are known. If there are problems within the police that make them ineffective, whether they are incompetent or malicious, those need to be just as public.

imasoftov

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 12:08 am

amother wrote:

Quote:

This is the part that makes it all so unbelievable. I honestly don't buy it.

I'm not sure that getting my rumors from "a few people", or "authority figures" counts as research. It's quite hard to tell if multiple confirmations mean that several people have independently verified the rumor, or if they're all repeating the same one.

amother

Copper

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 12:39 am

Quote:

Because this "story" is so unbelievable...that is the reason no one believes it is true. And this is including the authority figures. The people who believe the story know real parents and kids. So when you call them have a list of questions ready to ask them.
Do you believe it is true?
Why do you believe it is true?
Do you know any child that was talking?
Have you met with parents or children that were affected? etc.

I'm not saying you should be stupid. I'm telling you to be smart. Think. Ask questions.

The reason that these authority figures believe this story is true is because one boy from maalot dafna is saying the same crazy story that is impossible to make up as a girl from sorotzkin. They don't know eachother. They don't know anyone that knows each other and they are telling their parents this story.(not a therapist) How is this possible?

How is it possible that my child's recurring nightmare is the same crazy story that a child from the same school told his/her parents. We never met. The kids are 2 years apart?

notshanarishona

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 12:47 am

Is this only iriyah gans? Have there been any stories in lets says Maons?
Is this only in Shmuel Hanavi area or also in places like Har Nof?
I would like to find out more (although I do keep a close eye on my daughter and am very happy with her maon) but just so I would know of any warning signs. Who can I speak to?

amother

Powderblue

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 1:42 am

amother wrote:

Quote:

I believe you.
how did the families find each other to compare stories?

ora_43

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 2:17 am

amother wrote:

The reason that these authority figures believe this story is true is because one boy from maalot dafna is saying the same crazy story that is impossible to make up as a girl from sorotzkin. They don't know eachother. They don't know anyone that knows each other and they are telling their parents this story.(not a therapist) How is this possible?

Kids' stories don't say anything about the missionary cult theory. A child can say what happened to them. They can't possibly know if what happened is part of a massive conspiracy that includes everyone from teenage babysitters to bus drivers to the police.

It is also possible for kids to tell the same unbelievable story because they were attacked by the same neighbor who made up a story to throw off suspicion, or because they were influenced by rumors about what's going on. You don't need to directly know someone involved to have heard the crazy stories.

I'm not saying that's what did happen, just that those are other options.

I sincerely hope these kids are being questioned by professionals. In Nachlaot nearly all testimonies were thrown out because it turned out children were telling certain stories after their parents asked leading questions. Even if the story is true, no judge can use it if parents asked "was so-and-so involved" before investigators spoke to the child. For people who are involved/have neighbors involved, just be aware of that in case someone is planning to go to police.

Sanguine

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 3:24 am

amother wrote:

Interesting. The last thread said it was happening to DL as well and all over yerushalayim. So don't change facts around because you didn't believe it.

This story was going crazy last year in Sanhedria Murchevet (on this forum). I don't think that a DL child can't be kidnapped and molested just as easily but I don't believe such a large thing (as they were describing last year) can happen in a DL gan. Different type of parents -

1 - DL parents have whatsapp and email groups. I would write on whatsapp - Has anyone heard these stories?... And people would answer (maybe we're less careful of LH - I think we're careful but we talk more easily) Then we would discuss what we're doing about it. Setting up a Toranut of parents to keep watch at gan wouldn't be hard. The ganenet would help - If she's not willing to get involved with protecting the children the parents/mothers would go running to the next person above.

2 - DL mothers have bigger mouths. More demanding types. Maybe cause there's more equality between men and women (don't argue, that's not the point). Not this "have DH speak to the Rav" stuff. DL women can lead the march to city hall. DL women speak to their Rav even casually on the street. Asking for a public meeting isn't a problem and the women speak up as much (even more than) the men.

3 - There are less secrets in the DL community. We're not worried about affecting our children's Shidduchim in 15 years. The Rav isn't G-d. We're allowed to disagree.

4 - DL has a better relationship with the police cause we don't hide things and we're willing to let them into our gans and schools and to talk to them. The Chareidi community is closed and tries to handle their problems quietly by themselves. We demand police protection when needed but we give the police all the facts. I'm not saying a molested child would necessarily speak with a stranger but DL kids see the police as our friends (may come from their respect for Chayalim who they know personally). Chareidi kids speak only to Chareidim - I'm not criticizing that, just explaining why I don't believe such a big thing could happen in DL ganim.

5 - We're part of Misrad HaChinuch (last year they were speaking about private ganim and Cheder). There's a very big hierarchy in the chinuch system and a DL mother can climb it till she gets results.

6 - Our Chevre Knesset are approachable (by women too - Some are women and mothers too).

7 - The women can organize a Hafgana. Don't wait for the men to believe them. But, fathers often come to gan meetings too

Enough reasons why I don't believe something like this can go on for half a year in the DL communities.

I'm not saying what I do or don't believe about this story. I was frustrated enough last year by the stories and lack of info and lack of action (so were mothers from those communities)

chaiz

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 3:27 am

Yael wrote:

I am aware of many details of what is happening simply by being in touch with mothers of affected children.

Please do not say that the rumors cannot possibly be true because they sound farfetched. isnt that what everyone used to say when a child would be molested by a respected rav? now we have more awareness. please dont hurt the mothers of suffering children by saying what happened to their children couldnt possibly have happened.

in addition please dont say that the reason this is happening is their fault because they didnt watch their children, didnt go to the police, covered it up, spoke to a rabbi, went to a certain therapist, didnt warn everyone else, etc. etc.

its easy to say if only you go to the police then this can all stop. sadly the reality is far more complex than this.

may you never be made aware of the details.
for those of you who are aware and afraid, or affected and suffering, my heart goes out to you. If you pm me I can direct you to helpful sources.

So why can't you as a more objective third party start mentioning details? There are so many parents who are told there are stories without any details to arm themselves and help themselves. Vague words do not help. All it does is make one scared without the ability to do something.

black sheep

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 3:28 am

Abuse thrives in secrecy. It is SHOCKING the level of abuse that can take place with the right amount of secrecy. People are bribed and threatened to remain quiet. Victims just want to move on with their own lives.

I believe this story. It is real and it is happening. And if you want to know how it is possible, just read this thread. The molestation cult can do whatever they want, and the more horrifying it is, the less anyone will say anything, and in case anyone does, the less it will be believed.

The police can only do so much when victims are afraid to talk.

I think Yael is doing the right thing leaving this thread up. In fact I think she should make this thread public. The more exposure this issue has, the more likely we can stop this thing. It's only power now is secrecy. Let's take that power away.

June

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 3:35 am

black sheep wrote:

I think Yael is doing the right thing leaving this thread up. In fact I think she should make this thread public. The more exposure this issue has, the more likely we can stop this thing. It's only power now is secrecy. Let's take that power away.

The thing is, there is no exposure. Just hysteria, hysteria, and more hysteria. There was a 10 page thread about this on LII, with all of us begging to know more details so we could protect our kids. All we got was one or two amothers with a 'tude telling us we were ignorant and clueless, and too dumb to understand the "situation."

Iymnok

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 3:42 am

If it's bribes, we could bribe the staff not to accept the bribes.
If it's a perverted teacher or other staff member, with enough testimony they can be outed.
In LII it's been repeated over and over that it's happening but there's nothing to do about it.
If you know of a couple of children from the same institution who were affected, find the common denominator and eliminate it.
There were plenty of suggestions posted but shot down immediately.

israelgirl

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 4:36 am

Sanguine wrote:

I kept quiet long enough but your posts are bugging me to no end. I used to be very impressed with your love for Israel and passion, but from all the posts that I see from you, aside from being completely unhelpful, are downright degrading. When something happens in DL communities, I don't see anyone sitting there insisting again and again that it just wouldn't happen in Charedi circles. Like, what is your point exactly? If I were you I would choose one of two routes (being a Jew and Israel lover) a) be supportive to the people in these painful situations and sympathetic b) choose not to get involved as clearly you don't feel it effects you. Your constant comparing to DL is both unhelpful (and false, but I have no interest in getting into a debate)

Good luck.

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