Iriya gan scandal | Imamother

chaiz

Thu, Aug 27 2015, 1:54 pm

amother wrote:

When we found out about our son, he also mentioned two other kids from his class as being there. I had someone who knows both the parents of the other children and me go to them and tell them the news and what to do and how to get an evaluation. I did not go announcing to the rest of the class what happened. Since this story is so public at this point [it's all anyone talks about in the parks in my neighborhood] and many people know things first or second hand [a neighbor or close friend that it happened to], I think it is pretty clear to people that noticed we suddenly pulled our kid out of school that this happened to us. Of course, that is not the only possibility, he could have been critically ill. Towards the end of the year my friend called up and said "I am sorry for being invasive, but I assume your kid was abused and I think my son might have been also, do you mind if I ask you questions?" Of course I provided all the support and info that they needed. I also know of three families [5 kids between them] that were told that their children were named by other kids as being there and abused. They are still sending their kids to school saying this whole story is ridiculous.
But to answer your question, NO, just because you didn't get a phone call does not mean your kids are safe. If you hear of anyone leaving in the middle of the year, that should make you nervous.

Linen, I am just crying for you. I am so sorry you and your family went through this gehinom. We are davening for you. I hope from now on you only see healing and nachas.
Hug

amother

Chartreuse

Thu, Aug 27 2015, 1:55 pm

amother wrote:

I also know of three families [5 kids between them] that were told that their children were named by other kids as being there and abused. They are still sending their kids to school saying this whole story is ridiculous.

And their kids are acting completely normal? They don't see any physical or emotional signs of abuse?

With the extent of the horrific abuse that seems to be taking place, how is that possible??

I would think any kid this c'v happens to even once would come home absolutely traumatized - how can it have continued for so long?

(what I'm also asking is - is it possible that a kid was abused if his behavior hasn't changed and there are no physical signs - what should moms be looking for?)

My heart goes out to all those affected - I hope you and your children have a complete recovery from the trauma and go on to lead happy healthy normal lives iyH

Laiya

Thu, Aug 27 2015, 2:03 pm

amother wrote:

it's not a proof. This is just a point that the Torah itself understands that when people's lives or reputations are threatened AND they are completely stuck financially, can't feed their kids, and can't risk their jobs that are very hard to come by, they could be willing to hand over kids, probably without a clue as to who/what is happening to the kids.
Assuming they wouldn't run to the police, for societal reasons, what would their alternative then be?

I don't know why I am trying to convince you since I know this is happening. I guess it just bothers me to see people being put on high moral pedestals, simply because of their outward appearance. Or because they were born as Jews. This is a complicated situation.

Thanks for the context, now I understand better where you're coming from.

I'm very sorry for what your family has been through, and wish you a complete healing.
Hugs.

youngishbear

Thu, Aug 27 2015, 2:07 pm

amother wrote:

DUH! Where do you think he got his info from?! You want to explain how my three year old knows about Yoshke?

I'm so sorry for all the suffering your family has endured. Thank you so much for helping us understand the matzav so we can daven and contribute however we can.

Has the possibility been thought of that the religious and satanic aspects are used as a smokescreen to confuse investigators and create skepticism? IOW, it's a horrible moneymaking ring, and they're showing kids videos and confusing them to impede any investigation?

Though truthfully it doesn't matter. I hope your family heals and gets the support you need.

Hug

cyj1836

Thu, Aug 27 2015, 4:17 pm

chaiz wrote:

It seems doing so would compromise their security.

I spoke this evening with the main counselor from Magen Child protection, of the English speaking community. She is well versed in the situation all over Yerushalayim, and the particulars of maalot dafna. She did not think that giving names of the particular ganim would compromise the anonymity of any of the victims, or compromise security of investigations. She actually said it is a necessity in keeping future victims out of harms way and would in no way pose problems to families of already victimized children. Simply informing other parents about possibly dangerous situations is going to help the community in many ways, and the vulnerability of the affected parents and children, of both past victims and possible future victims (ch'v) can be respected. She said the absolute most important thing in child safety is advocacy. I want to respect the process all of the hurt families are going through. I'm hopeful that they are all reaching out for support, and if they would like to reach Shawna at Magen her number is 052-502-5522. She may be able to guide you in the process more and she is very accessible.

chaiz

Thu, Aug 27 2015, 4:23 pm

cyj1836 wrote:

I am not saying it will or won't. I leave that up to the experts. I was explaining what the reasoning is.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Aug 27 2015, 4:50 pm

I'm not trying to be mean, but why do I still see many kids walking around in EY, all alone. Five and six year olds walking 3 and 4 year olds home. An 8 year old playing with his soccer ball all alone at 9/10 pm. Six year olds asking people to cross them over. Seven year olds with carriages of full groceries trying to get home.
Why is there so little education in basic child safety?
Why are children taught not to speak or go with strangers?
Why is there not a national campaign for general child safety?
If that means giving a fine to parents that let children under a certain age be on the street alone, so be it.
If that means ONLY PARENTS are allowed to pick kids up,then that's what needs to be done.

This past summer I was approached by a child in Geula for tzedaka for Shabbos. The child was maybe 5 years old. Of course I gave him, also I told the child to wait outside a store. I bought him 2 big bags of popcorn. He listened and waited. If I would have told him come with me, no more little boy c"v.

Children are a gift from H-Shem. Please take care of them.

I am sorry for the families that these atrocities happened in school. Every parent sends their kids to school, thinking they are safe. And I'm not talking about these caring parents.

Parents, Please Watch Your Kids
Don't let them go out alone.
Don't let them play in the park alone, without proper supervision.
Don't let your 7 year old walk your 5,3, and 2 yr old home from school.

cyj1836

Thu, Aug 27 2015, 5:00 pm

sneakermom wrote:

I remember when the molesters walked freely in brooklyn.

They were rabbonim, rebbes, counselors, and prominent members of the community.

The victims grew up and through the internet found each other and spoke out. They were able to stay anonymous to some degree.

The power of the group, with their chutzpah to speak out, turned things around.

Heads rolled. Court cases. Etc.

And now the schools are terrified to hide a molester. They know there will be hell to pay. They learned what the signs are. The teachers and parents became educated and empowered. And it is no longer tolerated.

Somebody has to be brave. Someone has to feel they have nothing to lose. By saying the truth. Others have to be brave enough to back up that person. And hopefully the power of the group will prevail.

Have you listened to any of the youtubes from Nachum Rosenberg, or gone to the jewishcommunity watch website???? The situation has NOT improved so much there! Yes the victims were so beyond courageous and Nechemya Weberman (former head of the VAAD of tnius in Williamsburg )is serving a 103 year sentence for so many counts of rape- , which is amazing. BUT, there are so many other child predators there, and the schools are definitely covering up so much. Victims are being threatened daily. I'm not saying that your last sentence isn't true, but the reality of what is going on in Williamsburg and Borough, and Lakewood, etc, is not a pretty picture. Changes are being made, but the scandal is ahead of the changes unfortunately. Victims MUST be supported. Even if you can't give financially, just make them a supper so that they can read some books or play some games with their kids one evening and feel the healing that only a loving family environment can provide.

amother

Cyan

Thu, Aug 27 2015, 5:06 pm

amother wrote:

No one talks about it in my park (RE). People ask: did you hear the rumors? and everyone says yes, how do we know if it's true? and no one knows.

I've lived in this neighborhood for over 10 years and I do not know anyone who moved back because of abuse. The closest I got was someone who told me that a friend of a friend, whose name she can't say, moved back because of abuse.

Linen, I'm not denying that your child was abused and I applaud you for doing everything to help him.

I am just saying that people who have information should not assume that everyone knows it and that people who stay here are just in denial.

My friends and neighbors do not know anything. I'm the biggest source of info in the park these days because I have Internet and I read Imamother! I've been asking everyone I know. DH has been asking everyone in shul. We spoke to 3 different rabbonim and were told that some kids in SM were abused but it's not ritual or a cult or anything organized and we should teach our kids personal safety and not worry.

I did switch my kids to the new cheder as a precaution. I have no where to switch my girls to.

Do you really think I should uproot my whole life (we just bought an apt in another neighborhood that I was now told was also affected) because of anonymous posters on Imamother?

Seriously, put yourself into our shoes for a minute. You're the only one who can save our kids.

youngishbear

Thu, Aug 27 2015, 5:10 pm

cyj1836 wrote:

I think CSA is an important topic, but it's a general issue for a seperate thread. This thread is about the suspected ring of child torturers in Yerushalayim. It's in an altogether different league.

amother

Blue

Thu, Aug 27 2015, 5:12 pm

amother wrote:

Yes you should uproot your whole life as hard as it may be. PM Yael and she will be able to give you more info.

cyj1836

Thu, Aug 27 2015, 5:23 pm

youngishbear wrote:

I think CSA is an important topic, but it's a general issue for a seperate thread. This thread is about the suspected ring of child torturers in Yerushalayim. It's in an altogether different league.

Thank you.. and I was posting a reply to a quote that was in this thread. I thought it was an important point that they were making, that victims coming forward can make changes. Which is true, although the other point it brought out, which does affect this community, is that the crimes against children can be very organized. The case with Nechemya Weberman sited many instances of him burning his victims, which is an example of sadism. Sadistic torture methods are used by many sick individuals who actually find pleasure in causing pain to others. And these methods are passed along in their sickness, to further intimidate their victims. It is important for those reading these posts, and finding these storie so horrendous that they must be false, or at least embellished, to realize they are not far fetched.