Iriya gan scandal | Imamother

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Iriya gan scandal

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amother

Honeydew

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:00 pm

Could the 'person who called from the kuppa' be an imposter? I mean, who can know if it really was the head of the kuppa?

5*Mom

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:03 pm

I don't think that's a good idea. You don't know who I am and shouldn't rely on information I or any other anonymous online poster gives you without corroborating it yourself, especially when it comes to something as serious as this. There is so much conflicting and confusing information on just this thread alone. People need to be getting their information from real people with real names in real life. That's really the only way to assess the reliability of the information and then to know what to do with it.

Sanguine

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:04 pm

A question to the mothers of these children. What are the fathers actually doing? Going to the police? Going to raise he** in Kupat Cholim? Whenever I hit a "helpless" situation I send DH in to get things moving.

cyj1836

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:05 pm

amother wrote:

This is the part that makes it all so unbelievable. I honestly don't buy it.

have you ever actually done any research on ritual abuse? I don't understand why this all seems so unbelievable. Then again, I do understand.. it's totally horrific. That doesn't mean it isn't true.

Shuly

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:07 pm

5*Mom wrote:

I have spoken at length to Shana, a psychologist at Magen. She has been actively involved in the situation for some time and is in touch with many, many people including parents, therapists, rabbanim and law enforcement. For anyone looking for factual information about this situation, I strongly suggest that you call Shana who is more than willing to provide the information that she has.

Shana: 052-502-5522 or shana@magenprotects.org

Can I email her in English?

Sanguine

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:07 pm

5*Mom wrote:

I trust you. You're a regular poster here for 4 years already. You're not a plant. The others are amother - may have joined last week

5*Mom

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:07 pm

Shuly wrote:

Can I email her in English?

Yes, she is English speaking.

chaiz

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:10 pm

Sanguine wrote:

I trust you. You're a regular poster here for 4 years already. You're not a plant. The others are amother - may have joined last week

Can I remind you of a certain poster who shall not be named? Not that I am saying 5*mom is a troll or impostor. But she is very correct in stating that each parent needs to reach out to the professionals on their own.

Last edited by chaiz on Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

5*Mom

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:12 pm

Sanguine wrote:

I trust you. You're a regular poster here for 4 years already.

When the stakes are this high, you don't know me well enough to rely on information provided by me that you do not corroborate yourself. Further, if it comes from me there will always be room for doubt. Shana is willing to put her real name to the information she has to provide. That is worth a lot more than my sn.

cyj1836

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:12 pm

Sanguine wrote:

By law they must report any suspicion of abuse. (doesn't matter from who). My friend who isn't abusive but had a wild son that was often a step of her, actually had a tik in Revacha suspecting abuse cause some of the things that he did (like drinking a bottle of acamol). There are laws in this country. A pediatrician has to report. So does the hospital.

And what if they don't? What if they decide they don't want to? There are laws everywhere, and unfortunately there are plenty of individuals who don't comply with them. Do you think the doctor (here in EY) that was just convicted of molesting a 12 years old girl who came for a sore throat, but got a gyn exam, reported it!?! Why do you all believe everyone is so in compliance with the law? What this mother is telling you is that the institution that she went to for support is not giving it to her. They will not bear the load because they don't want to deal with all that would entail. Hello!!! it's called a "cover-up". That's what we're talking about!

cyj1836

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:23 pm

5*Mom wrote:

Yes, she is English speaking.

She is awesome! And she is so accessible on such a difficult topic. I spoke with her fora bout an hour and a half on thursday and she said that from what she know of this case in MD and SM, and other close neighborhoods, that she is not sure if it is actually a cult, but that it is definitely organized. To what scale they are not sure yet, but it is not individuals acting on their own. She said she would come her to speak to mother/ fathers. I thin we need to have her come and get a forum started where we can get questions answered in a live conversation. That is much more productive, although I know the anonymity is to there. I don't care; I just want to get some real clarity and the back and forth of the blog is wonderful, but needs a focused facilitator to answer so many of the questions that professionals already know. If anyone is interested they can pm me and I will post publicly for anyone that is interested in coming to here Shawna speak. I'm calling her tomorrow. Maybe R'Greenwald would address us as a concernced group as well.

5*Mom

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:26 pm

I repeat: do not rely on information from anonymous posters online. If anyone would like to know what Shana says they should contact her directly.

Sanguine

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:26 pm

Linen and Babyblue - Are you 2 Seashell and Turquoise or Seagreen from June's threads? Are there really only 2 women here with personal stories and everything else is rumors (things "I heard")? Or just a lot of questions and advice. How many real stories are here?

amother

Blue

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:30 pm

amother wrote:

ME! I took my child to the kupat cholim. The dr saw him and said, "oh, no, not this. I am not getting involved. Go to a different doctor." Then I got a call from the head of the kupat cholim who said, "we got a call from someone telling us not to report and we won't." I told the dr I wanted to do drug testing and std testing. They said, call back in a week. Of course, by then there are no drugs in the blood. We did std testing ourselves, and it came out negative, bh, but by the time we were able to get hold of home tests, it was three months later. The doctors had the names of the school and every name my son mentioned.

We told the police. They said they would "get on it" and did not.
My friend went to merkaz hagana. Her daughter said what was going on in clear detail. Her parents were standing by the door listening closely. When the session was over, they told the parent, "your daughter was too scared to talk, she did not say anything." Again, they were given the name of the school and every name she mentioned.

I was in therapy, and my therapist had mandatory reporting. She reported. Never got any calls from the police or merkaz hagana.

The police were given a computer with a compilation of over 50 children's accounts. They said that they misplaced the computer and cannot find it.

Another friend that dealt extensively with the police and merkaz hagana, and even a neurologist that could prove her son was not psychotic and must have been abused, told me to stop before they decide to take me and my husband for questioning and have our traumatized kid have to stay with some stranger for two days while we are locked in a cell, suspected of abusing our child. She told me this happened to many of the parents from nachlaot. That was the last thing I would want to get into at such a vulnerable time.

We told his teacher and principal. They said they don't know anything and did not notice that our son was ever missing. They said the rumors going around are not true. Then, they told other parents of kids from my son's class [!!!!!!!] that our kid was abused by this group. Hmm. OK....
The only response I got after pulling my kid out of school was repeated phone calls from his teacher saying, "he was my student, I have a right to know exactly why you took him out and exactly what he is saying. Is he saying something hurts him? What is bothering him? You must tell me!"

We told many gedolim. They told us either we are psychotic or our son is. We went to an expert pediatric psychiatrist to rule out psychosis. He said there is no way he is psychotic, this is clear signs of PTSD and abuse. This was confirmed by three other child psychologists that evaluated him [one involved in helping these kids, two not].

We told a few friends that we were worried about that this is real and it happened to our son. [one I even told that her son is exhibiting similar behavior to our son when we found out.] They did not believe us. They said "I am not ready to think about that."

Oh. Ok. Whaaaatever.

I'mwith you linen. We've all been through the same thing. Don't let any foolish posters get to you. I'm so glad your out of this country and healing! good for you!
Who would have dreamt that yerushalayim would be like this. They do say the places with the most kedusha has the most teuma too. I guess were seeing that here.
Sending you hugs!!!

amother

Blue

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:35 pm

DrMom wrote:

The bolded statements sound far-fetched.

The head of the kupah called you to tell you they cannot report this? That sounds very odd.

And why were the police given a *whole computer*? (And if they were, how would you know about it?) It would make more sense if they were emailed the files, in which case, the sender has a copy anyway, so it could be resent if it was lost. Some thing about your account sounds fishy.

I know I will be attacked for this, but I am wondering if you have Munchausen syndrome by proxy.

Wow. just wow. you make me want to Puke

Maybe Peanut2 could recommend a psychiatrist for you! Wake up! There are many imamothers telling you that same thing happened to them but you continue to ignore, and instead believe that your low class israelis that would murder a person for a few shekels wouldn't do what there doing. Wake up!

DrMom

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:39 pm

amother wrote:

Wow. just wow. you make me want to Puke

Your post speaks volumes about you.

I am looking at these testimonies with a critical eye, as should everyone. I do not automatically believe every far-fetched post made by anonymous posters (perhaps even the same poster). If this nauseates you, so be it.

I agree that the stories are horrific; the question is if they are accurate. I remain skeptical. They seem to have many "holes."

5mom

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:44 pm

amother wrote:

Wow. just wow. you make me want to Puke

Margaret Thatcher said that when her opponents attacked her personally, she knew she'd won the argument. It meant they had no facts on their side.

Jewishmom8

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:49 pm

Sanguine wrote:

I would think that there would be few personal stories as most people in that community don't use the internet for these proposes.

Sanguine

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:50 pm

cyj1836 wrote:

So go to another kupah. Or go to the emergency room. Every hospital in Yerushalayim in on it?

I cannot believe that all the doctors, social workers, police, rabbis... are in on this. People who chose professions to help people have no problem hurting people (children). I would never hurt someone. Go ahead, threaten me. Threaten my kids. I won't hurt someone else's kid. I'll go to the police. I'll go to the police in the next town. And the next one. I'll call all the newspapers. I'll call radio shows. Get the investigative reporter from Yediot. He'd love to investigate a cover-up in the Chareidi community. I'll get the other parents in my gan to fight misrad HaChinuch and throw out the Ganenet. We'll guard the ganim. My husband will stay home to guard it too. There are more kids? Great! We'll get al the fathers to protect our children in gan.

There are laws in this country. We pay taxes. The police work for us. Misrad HaChinuch works for us. Kupat Cholim works for us. We have rights to be protected. This is our country. We're not strangers in this land. Send in the newspapers!! We'd love to give interviews. They won't be able to shut us up. TV interviews are even more fun. We'll bring out the whole community and make banners. We'll shout and yell. When we're done, there won't be a single cover-up anywhere.

I would call the newspapers for you but what would I tell them? I don't have a single bit of evidence. Not a name. Not the name of a gan.

Not everyone is good and honest, but the laws of the country is bigger than them. But only if they're reported with evidence. If the first person doesn't listen, go on.

Last edited by Sanguine on Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Blue

Sat, Aug 29 2015, 4:54 pm

Sanguine wrote:

So go to another kupah. Or go to the emergency room. Every hospital in Yerushalayim in on it?

I cannot believe that all the doctors, social workers, police, rabbis... are in on this. People who chose professions to help people have no problem hurting people (children). I would never hurt someone. Go ahead, threaten me. Threaten my kids. I won't hurt someone else's kid. I'll go to the police. I'll go to the police in the next town. And the next one. I'll call all the newspapers. I'll call radio shows. Get the investigative reporter from Yediot. He'd love to investigate a cover-up in the Chareidi community. I'll get the other parents in my gan to fight misrad HaChinuch and throw out the Ganenet. We'll guard the ganim. My husband will stay home to guard it too. There are more kids? Great! We'll get al the fathers to protect our children in gan.

There are laws in this country. We pay taxes. The police work for us. Misrad HaChinuch works for us. Kupat Cholim works for us. We have rights to be protected. This is our country. We're not strangers in this land. Send in the newspapers!! We'd love to give interviews. They won't be able to shut us up. TV interviews are even more fun. We'll bring out the whole community and make banners. We'll shout and yell. When we're done, there won't be a single cover-up anywhere.

I would call the newspapers for you but what would I tell them? I don't have a single bit of evidence. Not a name. Not the name of a gan.

Not everyone is god and honest, but the laws of the country is bigger than them. But only if they're reported with evidence. If the first person doesn't listen, go on.

They threaten to murder ppl's family if they don't give the child. it's really not so simple. They are very dangerous ppl. no joke!

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