Iriya gan scandal | Imamother

amother

Scarlet

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 5:04 am

amother wrote:

Because this "story" is so unbelievable...that is the reason no one believes it is true. And this is including the authority figures. The people who believe the story know real parents and kids. So when you call them have a list of questions ready to ask them.

If, as you claim, it is so widespread, why is NO ONE giving our any real information? All this "just ask anyway" and "we have to keep it secret" and "you don't understand" makes it all seem even less believable.

Also, do you really expect us to believe that teachers, parents, bus drivers, babysitters etc. are all in on it and not a single person has blown the whistle? Everybody just got somehow happily involved? No one was approached and outright refused? No one was part of it and then got angry or disillusioned or disgusted and came forward? The more people involved, the harder it is to keep anything secret. And the scale you guys are talking about, seems, again, impossible.

5*Mom

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 5:09 am

israelgirl wrote:

Question: I have my son in Cheder and daughter in a private gan. Who can I speak to to ensure there utmost safetly and what can I tell them/do myself to provent them from being victims chas vshallom)

Under the current confusing circumstances, I would suggest that you:

1. take your children to school, walking them into their classrooms and making sure their teacher/ganenet is there before leaving;

2. pick up your children from school, directly from their classrooms, a couple of minutes before dismissal;

3. pop in unannounced from time to time;

and most importantly,

4. Organize a parents' toranut whereby each day, a different group of at least 3 parents remains in the school/gan ALL DAY, with at least 1 parent at the door/gate making sure that NO CHILD leaves with anyone other than a parent--NO, not even a teacher or principal or private tutor or therapist, or in the event that this is necessary, only with written parental permission (for records) and verbal confirmation over the phone AND a photo of who took which child and when.

These solutions may involve some extra effort but they are not complex, are well within the realm of doable and will empower the parents and safeguard all the children.

Also, if I was concerned about my child's school and needed to continue to send him, I would not hesitate to fit him with a tiny video camera hidden in his button or whatever (I would not tell the child).

ally

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 5:09 am

israelgirl wrote:

I kept quiet long enough but your posts are bugging me to no end. I used to be very impressed with your love for Israel and passion, but from all the posts that I see from you, aside from being completely unhelpful, are downright degrading. When something happens in DL communities, I don't see anyone sitting there insisting again and again that it just wouldn't happen in Charedi circles. Like, what is your point exactly? If I were you I would choose one of two routes (being a Jew and Israel lover) a) be supportive to the people in these painful situations and sympathetic b) choose not to get involved as clearly you don't feel it effects you. Your constant comparing to DL is both unhelpful (and false, but I have no interest in getting into a debate)

Good luck.

If you read this thread, one of the amothers has repeated the unsubstantiated claim that this abuse has also spread to DL gans. I agree with Sanguine that this is highly unlikely

nottelling

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 5:17 am

Quote:

so don't believe it. I don't think anyone is trying to convince you. if you find it so unrealistic than ignore the thread and continue on living. but if there is even a slight possibility that these mothers are telling the truth (which I know they are), then be a responsible parent and take every precaution to protect your children. it's simply not worth the risk.

but again, if it's too far fetched for you and you don't think your kids are at risk, then just ignore the thread. don't hurt the mothers who are already hurting by not believing them.

amother

Scarlet

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 5:18 am

nottelling wrote:

Quote:

My kids are definitely not at risk because they are on the other side of the world. But if those mothers are so concerned about other children, why all the freakin secrecy? It's madness!

Sanguine

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 5:27 am

israelgirl wrote:

I'm a member of this forum same as you. Don't read my posts if you don't want to (I think there's a way to have them not show up for you). I'm not sure why this issue even came up again this year. Same business of many rumors without any concrete facts except two amothers who claim their children were victims but they're not allowed to say anything and everyone should just trust them cause we couldn't possibly understand the situation. "SEND YOUR CHILD TO PRIVATE GAN!! - That's the only way to go". (Except the private gans and Cheder were the problem last year - maybe still are). "KEEP YOUR CHILD AT HOME - TRUST NO ONE!! The ganenets are in on it!!" I've seen lazy and incompetent Ganenot, but none of them would harm a child. In Yerushalayim they all do? Suddenly all Ganenot have money to buy their kids apartments? They're that easy/desperate to bribe? I don't think so.

You're right. I don't live in Yerushalyim and I don't have a child in Gan but mothers that do are asking for info and getting none. Is someone taking control of the situation (if there is actually a situation and not just a few random acts)?

Plenty happens in DL circles and there are police investigations (radical idea). We've called the police. My kids have called the police. They always call back and follow through. ONE story by ONE 3 year old might not start a full investigation but if there are so many stories from so many places there's no way that the police would be ignoring them. Forget that the kids are too young to testify and the parents "contaminated" the evidence, the fact that a hundred (?) parents file a similar report the police cannot ignore it.

Yes, I'm frustrated by hearing the same stories as last year with zero facts and just many rumors making mothers hysterical. I just don't get it.

Jewishmom8

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 5:33 am

Sanguine wrote:

I'm a member of this forum same as you. Don't read my posts if you don't want to (I think there's a way to have them not show up for you). I'm not sure why this issue even came up again this year. Same business of many rumors without any concrete facts except two amothers who claim their children were victims but they're not allowed to say anything and everyone should just trust them cause we couldn't possibly understand the situation. SEND YOUR CHILD TO PRIVATE GAN!! - That's the only way to go. (Except the private gans and Cheder were the problem last year - maybe still are). KEEP YOUR CHILD AT HOME - TRUST NO ONE!! The ganenets are in on it!! I've seen lazy and incompetent Ganenot, but none of them would harm a child. In Yerushalayim they all do? Suddenly all Ganenot have money to buy their kids apartments? They're that easy/desperate to bribe? I don't think so.

You're right. I don't live in Yerushalyim and I don't have a child in Gan but mothers that do are asking for info and getting none. Is someone taking control of the situation (if there is actually a situation and not just a few random acts)?

Plenty happens in DL circles and there are police investigations (radical idea). We've called the police. My kids have called the police. They always call back and follow through. ONE story by ONE 3 year old might not start a full investigation but if there are so many stories from so many places there's no way that the police would be ignoring them. Forget that the kids are too young to testify and the parents "contaminated" the evidence, the fact that a hundred (?) parents file a similar report the police cannot ignore it.

Yes, I'm frustrated by hearing the same stories as last year with zero facts and just many rumors making mothers hysterical. I just don't get it.

Sanguine you know I am a fan of yours ;-) and I am charedi.
my understanding is that there is a gag order by the police.
they need it to be quiet so they can investigate and do the work they need to do.
that is really upsetting but I kind of get it oddly.
I heard that most of the things happend while children were walking to and from school.

Sanguine

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 5:40 am

Jewishmom8 wrote:

Ahhh, the police are involved? That's good. But if the police are involved why aren't they at least sending out minimal instructions to parents (can come through the ganenot just saying that things are under control)?? I don't think that the police are keeping quiet and using 3 year olds as bait.

sped

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 5:57 am

I don't know where I stand as far as this story. I am confused.
BUT - as far as teh social services/mandated reporting: A good friend of mine had a child in her school who was found repeatedly with cigarette burns. They reported it. When someone came down from the police, they simply lit a lighter in front of the boy and when he didn't react, they said it can't be abuse since the child didn't show fear.
She said she doesn't feel like reporting again. Can you understand her?

ora_43

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 6:17 am

OK, I have to apologize for scaring people. Earlier I mentioned Ramot Daled as the only place I have ever seen actually named by someone, as opposed to people just saying "it's everywhere" or "I can't say where it is, for reasons."

But that doesn't mean there's any credible source for that. It was just me, in my frustration, being like "OK at least one person once shared one piece of slightly-more-specific information, maybe somebody can confirm/deny." I was hoping it might lead someone to be a little more specific, but no.

I'm very sorry to any Ramot resident amothers who I frightened.

Sadie

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 7:36 am

amother wrote:

NUMBER 1 - DO NOT SAY THIS IS NOT TRUE IF YOU DO NOT HAVE PROOF TO BACK IT UP!!! Many many people are saying that it is not true. Did they do any research? Did they speak to any parents of children who are talking? Did they speak to rabbonim or therapists who have spoken to parents of children who are talking?

If you believe that there is a satanic s*x abuse cult operating in Jerusalem then it is YOUR responsibility to prove it, not everyone else's responsibility to prove a negative.

This isn't the first type this type of mass hysteria has happened. In the 80's there was the McMartin Preschool case where similar types of outlandish rumors were flying around. They were proven to be false but not before they ruined people's lives. Same with the West Memphis Three- three teen boys who were accused of a satanic cult ritual killing and were in jail for many years before being exonerated. Their lives were destroyed because of JUST THIS type of mass hysteria and lack of critical thinking.

No one is saying there is no abuse happening. It sadly happens every day. But molesters are perfectly able to think it up on their own, no shadowy cult necessary. People like Nechemiya Weberman, Jerry Sandusky, yes- people who are in positions of trust with vulnerable kids. The child's own relatives can do it. It's easier emotionally to accuse a shadowy cult rather than your own brother or husband.

I posted these links in the earlier thread but as that was restricted to LII I will repost them, for anyone who is curious about the background of this. Please read them.

Panic in Jerusalem

McMartin Preschool Trial

Day care s*x abuse hysteria

Mass Hysteria

Moral Panic

amother

Blue

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 9:46 am

israelgirl wrote:

Agreed