Iriya gan scandal | Imamother

amother

Blue

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 6:48 am

Sanguine wrote:

This story was going crazy last year in Sanhedria Murchevet (on this forum). I don't think that a DL child can't be kidnapped and molested just as easily but I don't believe such a large thing (as they were describing last year) can happen in a DL gan. Different type of parents -

1 - DL parents have whatsapp and email groups. I would write on whatsapp - Has anyone heard these stories?... And people would answer (maybe we're less careful of LH - I think we're careful but we talk more easily) Then we would discuss what we're doing about it. Setting up a Toranut of parents to keep watch at gan wouldn't be hard. The ganenet would help - If she's not willing to get involved with protecting the children the parents/mothers would go running to the next person above.

2 - DL mothers have bigger mouths. More demanding types. Maybe cause there's more equality between men and women (don't argue, that's not the point). Not this "have DH speak to the Rav" stuff. DL women can lead the march to city hall. DL women speak to their Rav even casually on the street. Asking for a public meeting isn't a problem and the women speak up as much (even more than) the men.

3 - There are less secrets in the DL community. We're not worried about affecting our children's Shidduchim in 15 years. The Rav isn't G-d. We're allowed to disagree.

4 - DL has a better relationship with the police cause we don't hide things and we're willing to let them into our gans and schools and to talk to them. The Chareidi community is closed and tries to handle their problems quietly by themselves. We demand police protection when needed but we give the police all the facts. I'm not saying a molested child would necessarily speak with a stranger but DL kids see the police as our friends (may come from their respect for Chayalim who they know personally). Chareidi kids speak only to Chareidim - I'm not criticizing that, just explaining why I don't believe such a big thing could happen in DL ganim.

5 - We're part of Misrad HaChinuch (last year they were speaking about private ganim and Cheder). There's a very big hierarchy in the chinuch system and a DL mother can climb it till she gets results.

6 - Our Chevre Knesset are approachable (by women too - Some are women and mothers too).

7 - The women can organize a Hafgana. Don't wait for the men to believe them. But, fathers often come to gan meetings too

Enough reasons why I don't believe something like this can go on for half a year in the DL communities.

I'm not saying what I do or don't believe about this story. I was frustrated enough last year by the stories and lack of info and lack of action (so were mothers from those communities)

Get of your high horse!! its happening in DL communites as well unfortunately.
I know the facts and I aint gonna prove them to you! Try getting info on your own if it really matters to you.

amother

Babyblue

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 6:50 am

The funny thing here is that the people saying 'I don't believe it!' are usually not living in Jerusalem with their kids in cheder, school, and iriyah gan.
People living here and sending to chareidi mosdos are perhaps more aware of the hefkerus and corruption that was here long before these people chose the perfect place to do 'business'.

Sanguine

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 7:13 am

amother wrote:

Get of your high horse!! its happening in DL communites as well unfortunately.
I know the facts and I aint gonna prove them to you! Try getting info on your own if it really matters to you.

What is wrong with you, "Anon"?

amother

Blue

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 7:18 am

amother wrote:

This is the part that makes it all so unbelievable. I honestly don't buy it.

So don't buy it! it's your loss! but please don't come crying to us if it happens to your son ch'v, like my friend did after constant denial.

amother

Blue

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 7:19 am

Sanguine wrote:

What is wrong with you, "Anon"?

nothing's wrong with me hun! your the one that is having the issue of denial here.

DrMom

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 7:22 am

amother wrote:

So don't buy it! it's your loss! but please don't come crying to us if it happens to your son ch'v, like my friend did after constant denial.

If you provide proof or articles or reports, I'll be happy to read them. Pls post links.

5mom

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 7:52 am

Yael wrote:

I am aware of many details of what is happening simply by being in touch with mothers of affected children.

Please do not say that the rumors cannot possibly be true because they sound farfetched. isnt that what everyone used to say when a child would be molested by a respected rav? now we have more awareness. please dont hurt the mothers of suffering children by saying what happened to their children couldnt possibly have happened.

in addition please dont say that the reason this is happening is their fault because they didnt watch their children, didnt go to the police, covered it up, spoke to a rabbi, went to a certain therapist, didnt warn everyone else, etc. etc.

its easy to say if only you go to the police then this can all stop. sadly the reality is far more complex than this.

may you never be made aware of the details.
for those of you who are aware and afraid, or affected and suffering, my heart goes out to you. If you pm me I can direct you to helpful sources.

No one doubts that abuse happens. What's under discussion is the existence of an abuse ring. That is highly unlikely. Paedophiles tend to work alone, or at most with one other deviant. No accusation of abuse rings has ever been proven in the United States. Why would things be different in Israel? If anything, the tight knit community structure here works against this.

If the police were running a sting operation, they would still be in the schools talking to parents. The secrecy here suggests that incompetent leaders are hiding their mistakes.

Worse, mass hysteria leads people to believe that they are helpless, and prevents the community from moving forward.

Information empowers.

happybeingamom

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 7:53 am

Something I don't understand if this story is even 10% true why are the parents sending the kids to school? All the parents should do a boycott, how can children be put into such a dangerous situation.

Sanguine

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 8:08 am

I have a question for those that "know". Gans and schools haven't started yet this year. So how is all this going on in the gans already?

studying_torah

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 8:13 am

I read a few of those articles and while I do wonder how logistically this can happen, I do also wonder how the kids could have made up these stories of horrific s-x abuse without prior knowledge . That is the one point that really makes me wonder - how can this just be mass hysteria and not actually real? Could it be they were really abused and other details are not true? Could the abuse have happened to a few kids, who then told other kids that embellished the stories and thought ( or had nightmares) that it happened to them as well?

Amarante

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 9:50 am

I have no knowledge of the current situation and I fervently believe that children are molested by those in a position of trust.

However, back in the 1980's, in tne USA, there were accusations against the Mcmartin preschool which led to accusations across the country of satanic rituals in various preschools. In the end, it was shown to be completely unfounded.

Unfortunately some of the methods used to question the children were found to be very manipulative. Again, there is appropriate protocol that is effective when questioning young children that is reliable.

I don't know but it seems mind boggling that such a pervasive ring if molesters is at work throughout a major city and all the workers were in on it. I can certainly believe a school or even a few schools.

amother

Babyblue

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 9:56 am

How could you think that wikipedia is the place to look for reasonable accounts of history, including the Mcmartin case? Do you realize that anyone can edit wikipedia including a guilty or complicit party?

Watch the unaired documentary 'Conspiracy of Silence' or find out a bit about Boys' Town and Larry King, before declaring that 'no abuse ring has ever been proven in america'. Or read The Franklin Cover-up by John DeCamp. Plus consider that the reason for the satanic theory is because the victims are describing age-old satanic rituals, in detail, having no prior knowledge of such things. Children are talking about spiritual, physical, and emotional abuse by these people- not s-xual abuse only. Why would that be the case if it were individual molesters?

Can no one believe there are bad people in the world? Or that they can conspire in an organized way? Look at ISIS or the Nazis. Read the Torah.

Can no one believe that extremely poor and frightened people would comply with them? It's very likely that these morahs, rebbes, subs, drivers, etc have no idea what's done to the kids, they just know they get to feed their own kids because they have a side job.

Whoever say they need a doctor to drug people and therefore it can't be happening- please. To administer a sedative? Really?

amother

Babyblue

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 10:00 am

Why do people keep saying 'there's no way it's in EVERY gan'!

No one said it's in every gan. It's in more than several. Do you still want to send?

MagentaYenta

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 10:08 am

How many is several? 3? 6?

nywife

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 10:26 am

amother wrote:

Why do people keep saying 'there's no way it's in EVERY gan'!

No one said it's in every gan. It's in more than several. Do you still want to send?

No, what is being said is that it's a widespread, multi-leveled cult involving teachers, rebbeim, assistants, bus drivers and others. No one said "there is a group of 20 individuals isolated to X area that are doing this". It would be a much more believable story if that was the case.

amother

Orchid

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 10:28 am

Ora, could you be talking about the chardal school in Ramot? A relative took her kids out of there because of suspected molestation by more than one older boy and that school doesn't have a principal and no one is doing anything. Sad

Sadie

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 10:30 am

amother wrote:

Amother Babyblue, the Wikipedia articles I posted all have sources at the bottom and you may check them. How is Wikipedia, which provides sources, a worse place to get information than anonymous women on a messageboard?

amother wrote:

A child has also described the morah being sedated first, before two children were sedated and taken out in garbage bags (the rest of the gan was in the chatzer with the other morah). This child was sedated last and saw all of it before 'going to sleep'.

Source?

nottelling

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 10:31 am

No one is trying to make it a believable story.

chavs

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 10:36 am

Does anyone know which nurseries/kindergardens this happens in, if so why are there still kids there? Furthermore are the teachers also involved?

Does the wiki article shed some light? I havent seen it, could somebody repost it? This is not getting any clearer, honestly just more confusing (to me at least)

chaiz

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 10:43 am

5*Mom wrote:

Under the current confusing circumstances, I would suggest that you:

1. take your children to school, walking them into their classrooms and making sure their teacher/ganenet is there before leaving;

2. pick up your children from school, directly from their classrooms, a couple of minutes before dismissal;

3. pop in unannounced from time to time;

and most importantly,

4. Organize a parents' toranut whereby each day, a different group of at least 3 parents remains in the school/gan ALL DAY, with at least 1 parent at the door/gate making sure that NO CHILD leaves with anyone other than a parent--NO, not even a teacher or principal or private tutor or therapist, or in the event that this is necessary, only with written parental permission (for records) and verbal confirmation over the phone AND a photo of who took which child and when.

These solutions may involve some extra effort but they are not complex, are well within the realm of doable and will empower the parents and safeguard all the children.

Also, if I was concerned about my child's school and needed to continue to send him, I would not hesitate to fit him with a tiny video camera hidden in his button or whatever (I would not tell the child).

Slight issue with this is that enough kids come from dual working parent households. What then?