Matisyahu - brave defiant proud

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Carmen Luna

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 4:22 pm

imaima wrote:

how pessimistic.
I think many jews have been welcomed by the world.
Yoshke Christ, for one.

\

HUH? I MEAN, LIKE.. HUH?!?
I should quote Chazal "Eisov Soinah L'Yaakov.." but never mind. Too complicated for you. Another time

Imogen

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 4:32 pm

Carmen Luna wrote:

So your definition of Judaism is singing for a crowd a song about Jerusalem? SIGN ME UP! I thought (and when I say "I thought", I dont mean neccesarily myself, more like all the Tzaddikim dating back to Moishe Rabbeinu) Judaism is about being committed to living a life according to the Torah. But apparently all one needs to do to conform to distorted view of being a devout Jew is singing on Shabbos a song about the Holy City, and bam! there's a throne in Heaven waiting with your name inscribed on it.
And way to go, to find this as an opportunity to look down at "black hatted and jacket wearing Jews, who's mere existence seems to annoy you. Hater.
And btw, little anecdote for you, the Chofetz Chaim, you know, one of 'those black hatted wierdos" famously said, there's no such thing as a "frei yid" frei? yes. yid? no! One who doesnt follow in Hashems ways, shouldn't consider himself a jew. Not that it means anything to you...

Nobody is insulting the orthodox jew, no one is denigrating the frum world or its chosen garb of black hat etc, all that is being done is praise and support for someone courageous enough to face down an arena full of anti semitism through song and peaceful interaction. Public opinion and world politics matter, embargos harm our brethren in Israel and give succor to hate against our very existence. Please do not insult those of us supporting Matisyahu with the abusive phrase "Hater" there is no hate here towards orthodox jews, chas v'shalom, nor any need to bring in the name of our venerated Chofetz Chaim to score cheap points and so demean his teaching and stature.

Allegations regarding " coke" verge on the slanderous side of lashon hara, and there is no need to be so abusive towards one of our own sons and brothers. We get it, you do not like him, fine, well this mother of black hatted weirdos thinks he is fabulous. I am not worried about how someone dresses or conforms to the world around, I am old enough to know the difference between the letter and the spirit of the law. A life committed to Torah in my eyes is one of love and respect to others, free from judgement of others. I need to focus on what I do, not crush a man 's good name because he chooses to evolve in a different way to my own.

mushroom caps

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 4:53 pm

The chofetz chaim said that a frei yid is no longer a yid????!!!!he's a non jew??! To me that is the most mind boggling and inaccurate thing I have ever heard. For shame.

Carmen Luna

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 4:59 pm

mushroom caps wrote:

The chofetz chaim said that a frei yid is no longer a yid????!!!!he's a non jew??! To me that is the most mind boggling and inaccurate thing I have ever heard. For shame.

I hope you mean me, cuz it would be quite disrespectful to say that to the chofetz chaim. I can take the heat. I dont mind at all. Besides, I find it mind boggling that a woman who hears something that doesnt resonate well with her causes her to insult another human being.

Carmen Luna

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 5:02 pm

[quote="seeker"]I think this man could have earned his olam haba for his loyalty and guts in standing up for Israel and Judaism more than all your black hats and jackets or whatever it is you're worried about.

You can read for yourself. Feel free to twist her words to mean whatever ment.fits your agenda, but she definitely did bash orthodox jews

Carmen Luna

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 5:06 pm

imaima wrote:

how pessimistic.
I think many jews have been welcomed by the world.
Yoshke Christ, for one.

I was actually the one who "hugged" you. Not to be cynical. I just find your post sad, and so off the point that the point is like a tiny dot to you Hug

egam

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 5:26 pm

Carmen Luna wrote:

And btw, little anecdote for you, the Chofetz Chaim, you know, one of 'those black hatted wierdos" famously said, there's no such thing as a "frei yid" frei? yes. yid? no! One who doesnt follow in Hashems ways, shouldn't consider himself a jew. Not that it means anything to you...

Did Chofetz Chaim said the bolded part or is it your interpretation? Somehow I believe it's the latter. Did it ever occurred to you that you might have understood it wrong? Maybe by saying that there's no such thing as a "frei yid", Chofetz Chaim actually meant the opposite. That the yid is a yid, and can't be completely frei? That every yid keeps at least some mitzvahs? Have you ever heard about pintele yid? The Lubavitch Rebbe talks a lot about it.

Imogen

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 5:35 pm

[quote="Carmen Luna"]

seeker wrote:

I think this man could have earned his olam haba for his loyalty and guts in standing up for Israel and Judaism more than all your black hats and jackets or whatever it is you're worried about.

You can read for yourself. Feel free to twist her words to mean whatever ment.fits your agenda, but she definitely did bash orthodox jews

Word are precious things, I do my utmost not to " twist" them but rather to place them in the context in which they were presented, no bashing whatsoever, rather a desire to differentiate between substance over style, appearance over action.

mushroom caps

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 8:24 pm

Carmen Luna wrote:

I'm not insulting you. You opened this up for discussion and as you said, you can take the heat. I'm focusing on what you said. Yes I'm boggled that the CC would say such a thing and find it highly unlikely. In which case you should not quote him inaccurately. and if he DID say such a thing well...no words... . A Yid is always a Yid. Even if he tries to CONVERT to Christianity he is still a Yid. Being frei cant change that. and that is plain facts.
I would love to see what you said in writing, sourced..

mille

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 8:31 pm

It must be so easy to judge from way up there on that pedestal.

I guess orthodox jews don't need to be dan l'kaf zchut anymore, and I guess speaking lashon hara isn't actually an aveira! Thanks for letting us know, Carmen Luna.

rowo

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 9:31 pm

He identifies as a Jew and the world sees him as a Jew.
He was targeted with hatred because of that and responded with peace.

In front of I dont know how many people who came to taunt him and probably want him (and all of us) dead it shows great courage to get up and perform, and even more to sing about yerushalayim.

I don't really understand the need for such a negative perspective

PinkFridge

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 9:49 pm

I will confess, I first saw this elsewhere and when it mentioned Matisyahu and ban in the same sentence I thought, oh, no, is there going to be some bashing over some frum people who now ban Matisyahu? But then I saw it was about BDS and I have to say that I hope he finds himself in a place where he finds true menucha, but this did seem like a sha'a achas moment, and I hope it's a springboard to bigger and better things for him.

oliveoil

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 10:29 pm

Carmen Luna wrote:

Interesting. The Lubavitcher Rebbe felt the exact opposite:

Israel’s former chief rabbi, Israel Meir Lau, has recalled a meeting he had as a young man with the Rebbe. Lau proudly explained his involvement in “kiruv rechokim,” bringing back to Judaism lost Jews who had strayed far away. The Rebbe immediately corrected this inherently judgmental language: “We cannot label anyone as being ‘far.’ Who are we to determine who is far and who is near? They are all close to God.”

quote from: http://forward.com/opinion/200.....2oSZL

more at: http://www.chabad.org/therebbe.....h.htm

naomi6

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 10:40 pm

When it comes to anti semitisim there's no difference how one looks and dresses - but if he had gotten up there looking like a Frum Jew it would've been a kiddush Hashem

zaq

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 10:42 pm

Any Jew who stands up in front of the world and says proudly "I am a Jew" is a kiddush haShem.

DrMom

Mon, Aug 24 2015, 11:20 pm

naomi6 wrote:

When it comes to anti semitisim there's no difference how one looks and dresses - but if he had gotten up there looking like a Frum Jew it would've been a kiddush Hashem

What does a frum Jew look like?

Do you want him to wear a costume?

It was a kiddush HaShem anyway. You are focusing on all the wrong aspects of this incident. We really are doomed if we cannot muster enough achdut to stand up for a Jew standing up in the face of anti-Semitism because we don't like his clothes.

imaima

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 1:01 am

Carmen Luna wrote:

I was actually the one who "hugged" you. Not to be cynical. I just find your post sad, and so off the point that the point is like a tiny dot to you Hug

I don't care who was the one who hugged me. You obviously don't get anything beyond literal sense, and I give you a hug for that (maybe one day you will learn)
and I admit I was cynical in my post.

Point being, it is simply not true that jews are nevr welcomed in the world. If they were, they wouldnt have been invited to festivals and apologized to and reinvited.

imaima

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 1:06 am

naomi6 wrote:

When it comes to anti semitisim there's no difference how one looks and dresses - but if he had gotten up there looking like a Frum Jew it would've been a kiddush Hashem

what should he have looked like? Avraam avinu didn't wear a black suit.

fmt4

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 4:05 am

egam wrote:

Of course that is what he meant- that there is no such thing as a "frei" yid because a Jew is always a jew no matter what. Anyone with a modicum of basic understanding would interpret it that way. I literally can't even see how it can be understood the other way. But sadly, there will always be people like Carmen Luna who will try their best to twist around the words of our tzaddikim in order to put down other Jews... Really really tragic.

PinkFridge

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 8:32 am

naomi6 wrote:

When it comes to anti semitisim there's no difference how one looks and dresses - but if he had gotten up there looking like a Frum Jew it would've been a kiddush Hashem

I get you. I might not have said it or even thought it. I wasn't thinking of his levush, etc. re Kiddush Hashem as much as wondering what inner turmoil it may (or may not) be reflecting, but I don't think you should be bashed for thinking or saying this.
I wonder what the reaction would have been had you said "more of a Kiddush Hashem."

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