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Forum
-> Interesting Discussions
Do you believe in global warming?
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| Of course, it's science! |
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30% |
[ 25 ] |
| Oh please, it's all politics! |
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38% |
[ 32 ] |
| What's global warming? |
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3% |
[ 3 ] |
| Is it in the Torah? Maybe it's a sign that Moshiach is coming! |
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2% |
[ 2 ] |
| all of the above |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
| some of the above |
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12% |
[ 10 ] |
| none of the above |
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3% |
[ 3 ] |
| Wait, what was the question again? |
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2% |
[ 2 ] |
| other, which I will explain in painstaking detail below |
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6% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 83 |
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amother
Pearl
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 Fri, Nov 06 2015, 8:31 am
| pause wrote: | I don't get what you are saying.
The size of salmon may have increased, but many arctic animals and plants are dying out because of the increased temperatures in their environment.
You are saying global warming is nature and we must respect it. If global warming is nature, then yes, leave well enough alone. But there is enough evidence to believe that we humans have had a hand in this. And if global warming is man-made we need to do whatever we can to reverse the trend. |
The point is global warming isnt even happening... The point is not whether we can stop it or not. It isnt happening! The east side of Antarctica is melting and the West side is freezing in leaps and bounds...
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bigsis144
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Fri, Nov 06 2015, 8:32 am
| imasoftov wrote: | | Also maybe the people who used to live on the beach will evolve gills. |
Evolution don't work that fast.
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MagentaYenta
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Fri, Nov 06 2015, 8:40 am
| amother wrote: | | The point is global warming isnt even happening... |
Tell that to the people in Greenland.
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amother
Royalblue
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Fri, Nov 06 2015, 8:44 am
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I agree last winter was the one of the coldest harshest we remember - what does that mean
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smilingmom
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Fri, Nov 06 2015, 8:48 am
| pause wrote: | I don't get what you are saying.
The size of salmon may have increased, but many arctic animals and plants are dying out because of the increased temperatures in their environment.
You are saying global warming is nature and we must respect it. If global warming is nature, then yes, leave well enough alone. But there is enough evidence to believe that we humans have had a hand in this. And if global warming is man-made we need to do whatever we can to reverse the trend. |
Throughout the years different species of animals and plants have come and gone.
Most of it due to industrialization and pollution, but some of it cannot be controlled by us. We can call it natural evolution or Hashem, but whatever it is, we can see it in a beneficial light.
True we must respect nature and our environment.
Re-purposing products and limiting use of our cars are easy way to do that on a personal level.
By the way the temperature on Mars has increased the same percentage as the temperatures on earth, and there are no SUV on Mars.
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pause
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Fri, Nov 06 2015, 8:51 am
| smilingmom wrote: | Throughout the years different species of animals and plants have come and gone.
Most of it due to industrialization and pollution, but some of it cannot be controlled by us. We can call it natural evolution or Hashem, but whatever it is, we can see it in a beneficial light.
True we must respect nature and our environment.
Re-purposing products and limiting use of our cars are easy way to do that on a personal level.
By the way the temperature on Mars has increased the same percentage as the temperatures on earth, and there are no SUV on Mars. |
So what you're saying is that there is global warming but we can't really do anything about it? I can hear that though I disagree.
I couldn't figure out how pointing out the positives of global warming is an argument.
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smilingmom
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Fri, Nov 06 2015, 8:57 am
| pause wrote: | So what you're saying is that there is global warming but we can't really do anything about it? I can hear that though I disagree.
I couldn't figure out how pointing out the positives of global warming is an argument. |
I was trying to point out that global warming, whether caused by God or men, is not necessarily evil.
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Dolly Welsh
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Fri, Nov 06 2015, 8:58 am
Assorted differences from before are going on. Some places are hotter and some are colder. That doesn't "mean" things. Torah means things. It is just happening. It does that. Nature does what it wants. Meaning what G-d wants. There is no "it means". We are not casters of bones and entrails to ascribe meaning to nature.
OF COURSE we want to understand. We can understand some things and not others. We know the moon isn't sick when it goes into eclipse. We get it. We get what's happening. People didn't always.
That's an easy one. Climate is not a neat series of predictable things. Lots of things are going on and always have, and they counterbalance and contradict each other. This means things come out ok for the human race one way or another.
Yes, people should be careful about not messing up the environment. But that has nothing to do with climate. Yes, weather patterns can be plotted intelligently: we can indeed make good predictions ten days out about weather. We can't make good predictions out about two months from now. Too many complications and variables.
You can know some things and not others. You can look at a little boy you know well and make a fairly good prediction about what life he will live: is he thoughtful, is he athletic, is he usually in charge, is he calm in a corner ignoring the hurly burly? He will probably always be like that.
Exactly who his first boss will be, whether his first child will be a girl or a boy? No, you have no idea. You can predict some things in a short term, or in a very general way. You really have no idea.
And a lot can happen to change him, too. You are not in the dark completely, but you have no clear vision of the large picture. Too many variables.
It's like that. Too many variables.
There are some dire predictions from the last century, floods and famine and all, that are never mentioned today because they didn't happen. Scientific advances in agriculture, all that. Things have improved. Are people geniuses? Hashem guided their hands.
Let us "believe" in Torah and not panic. Science is a lot of fun and keeps men out of trouble. That's fine. And it inspires them. That's fine. And it makes me more comfortable. I like air conditioning. I like hanging out on the internet, which was undreamed of when I was married.
Don't worry. There will be problems but we will cope.
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MagentaYenta
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Fri, Nov 06 2015, 9:00 am
| amother wrote: | | I agree last winter was the one of the coldest harshest we remember - what does that mean |
It means that your local weather is influenced by many things. Here on the left coast our weather is influenced by the higher temperature in the Pacific Ocean. (Among other things.)
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pause
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Fri, Nov 06 2015, 9:35 am
| smilingmom wrote: | | I was trying to point out that global warming, whether caused by God or men, is not necessarily evil. | There's a difference in consoling yourself about damage you caused by pointing out some side benefits vs. realizing that if it's G-d's will we may as well see the good in it.
It's the difference between A) let's burn down the house we live in. Oh, it's burned, well, at least we now have a lot of ash. B) A fire we were powerless to prevent or extinguish burned down our house. At least now I can use the empty lot to play ball.
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MagentaYenta
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Fri, Nov 06 2015, 9:44 am
| Dolly Welsh wrote: |
Science is a lot of fun... |
Science is fun, unfortunately there are people who have opinions about science who haven't learned any of the basics. This holds true for climate change, weather and meteorology.
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amother
Orange
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Fri, Nov 06 2015, 9:45 am
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It doesn't matter, because the things being proposed in the name of global warming are things we should be doing anyway. Do you really think we shouldn't be trying to curb emissions? Because we and our kids are breathing in all that cr*p and it's not definitely not good for us. And we should absolutely be developing alternatives to oil, because all that oil we're using is lining the pockets of hostile Arab nations, and that certainly isn't good for us either. Americans should be reducing reliance on cars, which would help people slim down. Maybe humans are affecting the climate, maybe not, but these solutions are things we ought to be doing regardless.
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smilingmom
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Fri, Nov 06 2015, 9:47 am
| pause wrote: | There's a difference in consoling yourself about damage you caused by pointing out some side benefits vs. realizing that if it's G-d's will we may as well see the good in it.
It's the difference between A) let's burn down the house we live in. Oh, it's burned, well, at least we now have a lot of ash. B) A fire we were powerless to prevent or extinguish burned down our house. At least now I can use the empty lot to play ball. |
Your analogy is based on your premise that I do not agree with.
You assume that global warming in and of itself is vile. I do not see it as vile, but as good.
You assume that global warming has a negative impact on our world. I do not agree with that assumption. I see the positive impact of global warming.
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pause
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Fri, Nov 06 2015, 9:53 am
| smilingmom wrote: | Your analogy is based on your premise that I do not agree with.
You assume that global warming in and of itself is vile. I do not see it as vile, but as good.
You assume that global warming has a negative impact on our world. I do not agree with that assumption. I see the positive impact of global warming. |
You're going from not necessarily evil (in your previous post) to good. It's difficult discussing something when you're position is shifting.
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smilingmom
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Fri, Nov 06 2015, 10:02 am
| MagentaYenta wrote: | | Tell that to the people in Greenland. |
http://news.nationalgeographic......html
here are some excerpts
"In southwestern Greenland, for example, the grass-growing season gets longer each year, boosting productivity for some 60 sheep farms now established in the region. Up to 23,500 sheep and lambs are slaughtered annually.
Dairy cattle have recently been reintroduced, and a government-led project is expected to yield 29,058 gallons (110,000 liters) of milk annually, according to the new report.
Locally grown potatoes have appeared in supermarkets, alongside broccoli and other vegetables never before cultivated in Greenland.
Commercial fishermen are anticipating bumper cod catches after the fish recently moved north into Greenland's waters. Halibut are also increasing in size."
"Greenland's melting ice cap has triggered a rush for diamonds, gold, and other metals as mining companies prospect previously covered mineral-rich rocks.
Oil companies have negotiated rights to explore for oil and natural gas along the Greenlandic coastline. The island may also be swept up in the scramble to claim the Arctic seafloor and its oil wealth.
Potential new revenues from oil, mining, and cheap hydroelectricity supplied by abundant meltwater could soon make independence from Denmark affordable for Greenland, which is heavily dependent on the European country for funding.
The report added Greenland's progress "towards a sustainable economy with the possibility of full sovereignty" may come much sooner than previously thought."
Last edited by smilingmom on Fri, Nov 06 2015, 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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smilingmom
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Fri, Nov 06 2015, 10:07 am
| pause wrote: | | You're going from not necessarily evil (in your previous post) to good. It's difficult discussing something when you're position is shifting. |
I always maintained that global warming has a positive impact on humanity.
I used the term "not necessarily evil" to contrast the fear mongers who classify global warming as evil.
My position has definitely not changed over the years, nor over the last hour.
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bigsis144
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Fri, Nov 06 2015, 10:10 am
| amother wrote: | | It doesn't matter, because the things being proposed in the name of global warming are things we should be doing anyway. Do you really think we shouldn't be trying to curb emissions? Because we and our kids are breathing in all that cr*p and it's not definitely not good for us. And we should absolutely be developing alternatives to oil, because all that oil we're using is lining the pockets of hostile Arab nations, and that certainly isn't good for us either. Americans should be reducing reliance on cars, which would help people slim down. Maybe humans are affecting the climate, maybe not, but these solutions are things we ought to be doing regardless. |
Well said. I was trying to find the words to post something like this.
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fmt4
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Fri, Nov 06 2015, 10:34 am
| amother wrote: | | I agree last winter was the one of the coldest harshest we remember - what does that mean |
Do people still think that global warming literally means that the thermometer reads a higher temperature in the particular place that you live? Get educated people. The fact that on the east coast we had a cold winter last year does nothing to prove that global warming is not a fact.
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amother
Royalblue
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Fri, Nov 06 2015, 10:40 am
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Love warmer temperature the cold snowy icy weathers much harder
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