People are Individuals - recent shootings

Maya

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 5:23 pm

octopus wrote:

Trace it back to the revolutionary war, and the birth of the USA, but one of the most basic tenets that this country has been built on is the right to bear arms. If you don't like that, then why don't you move to London? Confused

Do you think the forefathers envisioned military-grade machine guns that can shoot a hundred bullets in the hands of civilians, or was their knowledge limited to a little handgun which shot a bullet and then took a minute to reload?

Maya

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 5:25 pm

wondergirl wrote:

Do you actually feel safe in America and believe that the cops cant or wont kill you because you are "white"? Because more white people are killed by cops in America yet you only hear about black people being killed (by cops). Why do you think that is? How come you don't fight police brutality in general, instead of just police brutality against black people? What is it about your skin color that makes you feel like you are safe from being shot or mistreated by cops?

I didn't say anything about police brutality, which of course is an issue all around.
Right here, I spoke only of race relations and what it means to be black in this country. Please don't put words in my mouth.

gp2.0

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 5:32 pm

There aren't easy answers, but maybe we need to start thinking outside the box on this one. Maybe the US should transition to a country where all citizens have the right to carry non-lethal weapons, and police officers are armed only with non-lethal weapons too.

Technology has advanced since the mid 1700s and it's crazy how we as a nation cling to those ideals while evidence keeps pointing to guns just being a bad, bad idea, in the hands of anyone. No first world country has as many mass shootings as the US does. We have so many options now for non-lethal weapons that are just as effective at disabling people. Things like pepper spray, tasers etc.

There are already laws outlawing certain types of guns, even for people who are licensed to carry. For example people are licensed to carry specific types of handguns, but not machine guns. A transition to handguns being outlawed and replaced by non-lethal weapons should be a no-brainer. But in a country where it takes decades of political manuevering to get anything done, the odds aren't good that positive change will actually happen.

Maya

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 5:41 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

T
Technology has advanced since the mid 1700s and it's crazy how we as a nation cling to those ideals while evidence keeps pointing to guns just being a bad, bad idea, in the hands of anyone. No first world country has as many mass shootings as the US does. We have so many options now for non-lethal weapons that are just as effective at disabling people. Things like pepper spray, tasers etc.

Great post, gp2.0
This has been my question. If a cop has a suspect on the ground or sitting in a car, then what possesses him or her to take out a gun instead of a taser, since it's such close range and would be just as effective at subduing the suspect? That's what I don't get.

mommy3b2c

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 5:43 pm

Maya wrote:

I am unaware of any suspect that was shot point blank while on the floor. When did this happen?

allthingsblue

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 5:45 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

I am unaware of any suspect that was shot point blank while on the floor. When did this happen?

I don't know about the floor, but the guy in Minnesota was sitting in his car, simply reaching for his license and registration, after he disclosed to the officer that he had a permit to carry a gun. He didn't do a thing wrong, if I understand correctly.

Maya

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 5:47 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

And Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge was pinned on the ground, according to this quote from a NYTimes article:

Quote:

Two white officers were arresting Alton B. Sterling, 37, early Tuesday after responding to a call about an armed man. The officers had Mr. Sterling pinned to the ground when at least one of them shot him.

Both guys could have just been tasered if the police felt they were a threat to their safety.

wondergirl

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 5:57 pm

Maya wrote:

I read a book written by a famous black author in which he states that his parents beat him and then blamed it on white people. He then wrote about how black people become mayors of cities and are harsh on other black people and blames it on white people. He wrote about a black cop killing a black person and blamed it on, you guessed it, white people. In other words, white people are to blame for all the problems that black people have even if white people are not involved and have nothing to do with what happened.

Btw, this reminds me of another famous author who wrote a book years ago in Europe. He however, blamed all of his problems and the problems of his country, on the Jews. And I don't have to tell you what happened to the Jews a few years after his book was published.

So perhaps you can elaborate on what you mean by race relations and what it means to be a black person in this country without blaming white people for anything that is happening in the black communities. Is that even possible or are all white people to blame for the problems in the black communities in the same way that Jews were to blame for the problems in Europe?

Maya

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 6:01 pm

Wondergirl, please step off your soapbox for thirty seconds and take the time to read what I am writing.

Definition of race relations:
noun
1.
(functioning as pl) the relations between members of two or more human races, esp within a single community
2.
(functioning as sing) the branch of sociology concerned with such relations

I don't recall saying anything about blaming white people for all the problems of black people.

shoshanim999

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 6:02 pm

Maya wrote:

Oh, it seemed you had it all figured out, with your posts about black crime, and blaming only black people for all their troubles.

Educate yourself by reading relevant books on the topic.

I think it's exactly this type of attitude that will forever keep blacks down. Who's fault is it that almost 70% of black babies are born to single mothers most of whom are 17 years old or younger? That most definitely perpetuates the problem and certainly these babies are more likely to grow up in poverty, and and up involved in crime. It's outrageous that 15% of the population is responsible for 50% of the murders. But of course we can talk about excuses and how somehow these black teens are getting pregnant because of racist white people. One thing's for sure, until black people take responsibility and stop making excuses about why their situation is not their fault, which you seem to agree with, things will stay the same.

Maya

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 6:04 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Seriously, people, learn to read. Until then, I am done with all these totally irrelevant posts and made-up statements that you are attributing to me.

Maya

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 6:07 pm

You know, when some crazy Chassidish people or right-wing extremists in Israel do some stupid things, you're all quick to point out that they're fringe and that you don't associate with those kind of Jews, but now you're totally comfortable lumping all black people together by saying they are all COLLECTIVELY at fault for their situation in this country.

Gotta love that double standard.

watergirl

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 6:11 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

I was reading this morning that the celebrity Drake said that after watching the video he is genuinely afraid for himself, his family and friends. Is he serious? The biggest threat to black people is other black people and it's not even close. Where is the outrage about the black on black crime? Why aren't there marches and protests about this? Do blacks really care about black lives? I certainly don't think so.

There are black rallies for black saftey and stopping black on black crime. Google "300 men march" and "munir bahar". He is doing amazing things in his community. I was at a luncheon with him. He is amazing but is having trouble getting enough financial backing for his ideas.

IMHopinion

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 6:15 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

That's what his GF claims. But we don't know the truth. I don't think the camera filmed yet at that point.

Read statistics, it's proven that blacks have higher crime and murder rates.

More murders are committed by blacks, and there are far fewer blacks in our country than white people.
So that shows something.
It's not racism it's fact.

treestump

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 6:16 pm

I don't think I've ever agreed with Newt Gingrich before, but today I did.

He said that "if you are a normal white American, truth is you don’t understand being black in America."

It's very easy to comfortably pass judgement on a whole race of people when you haven't experienced the fear and prejudice they have.

Yes, there is black 2 black violence. And it is very problematic. But why does that excuse police brutality towards black people? They are two different things that both must be addressed.

As an aside, I find the title of this thread quite ironic, with the direction this thread has taken: People are Individuals.

shoshanim999

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 6:20 pm

Maya wrote:

I'm sorry if the facts aren't convenient for you but when extremist jews do crazy things they are in the extreme minority. I'm not lumping all black people together but it is a statistical fact that black people were responsible for 51% of the murders in this country between 1980 and 2008. I guess 51% isn't everybody but seriously, let's not pretend that its only a tiny minority.

allthingsblue

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 6:21 pm

IMHopinion wrote:

I didn't watch it because it would horrify me, but I read a summary of what was filmed, and it seems that after he was shot his girlfriend said something like, "sir, he was only getting his license and registration like you asked! Don't tell me you shot him!"
That's not conclusive proof, but I imagine a girlfriend who witnessed her boyfriend get shot having the presence of mind to make up a story on the spot. So I'm going to believe that that's what happened- he was simply getting his license and registration.

gp2.0

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 6:22 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Your opinion is part of the problem that I mentioned in my OP. Putting aside that your points have absolutely nothing to do with the topic we are discussing, you are failing to see the individual. You are taking a society and trying to pin that society's failings on the reason for why innocent men were murdered at point blank range. Do you understand that one has nothing to do with the other? Do you understand that none of the little factoids you cite above are Philando's or Alton's fault? Do you understand that these individuals who were murdered in cold blood could have done absolutely nothing to change the way society perceives them, yet it was in part because of this perception that they were killed?

You're a Jewish woman. According to your logic, you should personally take responsibility for every failing in Jewish society. A Jewish person murders someone? You need to take responsibility for that. A Jewish person steals? You need to take responsibility for that. A Jewish teenager gets pregnant? It's your fault, take responsibility for it. Do you realize how crazy that sounds?

Maya

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 6:23 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

I didn't say tiny minority. But you are saying ALL.
Plus, it seems you are still not understanding what race relations means. I don't know why you keep on harping on their crime rates.