Do women in your shul bow on the floor?

amother

Cobalt

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 2:33 pm

During Aleinu in Mussaf on Rosh Hashana, and during the Avodah in Mussaf on Yom Kippur, all of the men bow down on the ground. Do the women in your shul do so as well, and if not, why not? Are there different customs about this among different groups?

amother

Khaki

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 2:36 pm

In my shul, most women do. I do, except the past few years I didn't have enough space to.

Chayalle

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 2:37 pm

There are different customs. In all of the shuls I've davened in, I've seen women who do and women who don't. In my family the women don't - nor do they in DH's - so I don't.

For some reason, I think the reason not to is based in tznius, but I can't say I understand it.

tichellady

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 2:39 pm

In my childhood shul only a few women did it. In the shul I go to now, almost all the women do it.

SixOfWands

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 2:39 pm

Some do. Some don't. I usually do, unless I'm wearing a straight skirt and fear that it will wind up somewhere around my chin.

amother

Salmon

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 2:49 pm

tichellady wrote:

In my childhood shul only a few women did it. In the shul I go to now, almost all the women do it.

Same experience. I still don't, even though I'm one of the only ones who doesn't (not counting the elderly women who can't). There's really not enough space to do it properly and I have a bad knee too. And it's just not something I want to do. Didn't do it growing up, don't want to do it now.

heidi

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 2:53 pm

amother wrote:

Me too.
Also seems that when I was growing up almost none of the women did and now the vast majority of women in my shul do.

Rubber Ducky

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 2:55 pm

Yes, nearly all the women bow down, both in my shul here in Baltimore and also when I lived in L.A.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 3:03 pm

In every shul I have ever gone to some women do and some dont. And those that do, some put something under themselves for when they are fully bowed and others just bow with nothing.

Maya

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 3:25 pm

I never saw women bow to the floor in any of the the Chassidish shuls I ever went to, but I do see it at the shul I currently attend. I don't know the reasons for either.

chanchy123

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 4:06 pm

Growing up in an American community in Isreal - yes. All women bowed to the floor. In my current mixed heritage Israeli community, many women do - but not all of them.
Edited to add that I learned not all women bow to the floor in midrasha, one of the teachers was saying it's not tznius and women shouldn't do it, and that only very few women do it - Americans and Yekkes but if you're not American or Yekke than you shouldn't. As I said, earlier in my shul growing up everyone did it and my mother would make a big deal about being prepared with hand towels to put under your forehead. I am assuming she did it as a child as well.

bigsis144

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 4:10 pm

I learned in my OOT BY school that women do not bow to the floor.

The Yeshivish-Rabbi-with-mostly-MO-congregation shul I went to had all the men bowing to the floor, and the MO women bowing to the floor while the rabbi's wife and daughters and the few more yeshivish congregants bowed at the waist.

I assumed at the time that the women who bowed to the floor did it out of ignorance/feminist "if the men do it, we do it too."

(I was a very judgmental little teenager... *cringe*)

amother

Teal

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 4:11 pm

Growing up, I am now in my 50's, no woman ever did it in the many shuls I frequented. It was never mentioned in the schools I went to when we learned the RH, YK tefillot.
Then, slowly, I began seeing some girls coming home from their year in Israel bow to the ground.
Fast forward to today, many many women in my shuls do. Many do not.
I would venture to guess that most somewhat older women (50s, 60s) do not, not because they can't but because it was never their minhag to begin with.

chanchy123

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 4:21 pm

Actually, now, that I'm thinking about it. This might not have been the case, maybe some women bowed and others didn't. I guess didn't really notice all the women in shul because I was busy davening the most sacred tefilot of the year and bowing like in the Beit Hamikdash - didn't really take the chance to look at what other women were doing. I guess that teacher in midrasha pretty much ruined it for me, because since then I've been eyeing other women to see what they are doing instead of focusing on my prayers.

amother

Smokey

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 4:32 pm

Maya wrote:

I never saw women bow to the floor in any of the the Chassidish shuls I ever went to, but I do see it at the shul I currently attend. I don't know the reasons for either.

Interesting. I've been to various shuls over the years, some very chassidish, others less so, and non-chassidish shuls too, and there were always some who did bow down and others who didn't. IIRC I've never seen anyone bowing all the way on Rosh Hashana, only Yom Kippur. Perhaps that's why you didn't see it?

I'm actually finding this thread fascinating as I used to think it was a chassidish thing. You live and learn. Wink

amother

Natural

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 4:44 pm

I am chassidish.

I've davened in tens of shuls during Rash Hashana and Yom Kippur for quite a few decades and have never ever witnessed any woman bowing on the floor.

I admit that until this thread it never dawned on me that this is practiced by women too.
I am utterly shocked!

It's just NOT done in Chassidish communities AFAIK.

Studious

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 5:07 pm

I find it a very powerful experience and recommend it. Why would it be not tzanua to show G-d that you are nothing in front of Him?