Alternative approach (spinoff)

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Forum -> Children's Health

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MagentaYenta

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:28 pm

amother wrote:

I know. She's loaded with "whoop azz" , waiting to explode. I know my views are open to criticism. I don't give a hoot what FF says. Our views are polar opposites.

Why must you continue to hide behind Ima? Don't you have the courage of your convictions?

boysrus

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:28 pm

Hi everyone,

I am so disappointed to read this thread. Look at you - a bunch of grown women shouting at each other and arguing like little kids. maybe you should just agree to disagree.
(Btw, I take no sides in this argument. I firmly believe that everyone is entitled to make their own decisions)
I cant believe I have wasted my time reading through this whole thread.
Just call it a day, and go to bed all of you! Dont you think klal yisroel has more important things to worry about right now? e.g. fires spreading all over Israel. Lets quit arguing, say some tehillim and go to bed.

(And please, please mind your language, its a little offensive. It also isnt nice to tell people to stop having kids just because you dont agree with their parenting style. Live and let live,and please be polite about your opinions. Thnk you)

Posting with my screen name so that maybe I will be taken seriously. I have well over 3000 posts here I think, and have NEVER BH attacked anyone or been rude ot anyone with my screenname or as amother.

Last edited by boysrus on Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Bronze

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:29 pm

eschaya wrote:

Y'all know there's a happy medium, right? Shvil hazahav?
Bringing a kid to the doctor the second he coughs and throwing antibiotics at him for a viral illness is foolish. Not vaccinating and never giving abx is equally foolish. Both arise from ignorance.

A few random points here:

Not completing a course of abx will only lead to more resistant strains of bacteria in the future... just because you are feeling better does not mean that the bacteria has been eradicated. Always complete the full regimen!

And yes, antibiotics ARE poison... to the bacteria!! That's the point. I agree that many infections will resolve on their own and do not need intervention. But for those that will cause serious deleterious effects, you need to treat them with a targeted weapon, the appropriate antiinfective. I barely ever take myself, or give my kids antibiotics (I let time heal a sore throat, ear infection, febrile illness). I have taken antibiotics only once in my adult life (I'm in my 30s). I can only think of 2 instances in the last few years where any child of mine was on antibiotics. But if there is a known serious bacterial infection, there is only one cure...

Tylenol and motrin do NOT cause drowsiness (though benadryl does). Maybe your kids fall asleep after taking it because their pain is finally relieved. Tylenol actually has almost no side effects or risks as long as you are mindful of the daily dose.

You do realize that prior to the development of vaccines and antibiotics people (especially children) used to die with frightening rapidity from infections? B'H in todays day we do not have a healthy fear of these microorganisms because they are so infrequent, and because we can halt a potentially serious infection with such seeming ease? Childhood mortality has decreased tremendously thanks to the gifts of modern medicine that Hashem has graced us with. It is a gift from Hashem and we'd be foolish to throw the gift back in His face.
I sincerely hope the the rabidly anti-vax, anti-medicating mothers are blessed to never be in a situation where they have to painfully learn of the necessities of modern medicine. May Hashem protect the ignorant.

The "happy medium" is yet another viewpoint. Not mine, though.

I love the gift of modern medicine, btw. Xrays for my dd's broken arm, abx for another child's "ludwigs angina", and the current amazing story of the separation of twins who were born conjoined at the head. (google jadon and anias).
I'm just very selective about when and what I use.

amother

Bronze

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:33 pm

ally wrote:

It's not unfortunate for FF.
It's unfortunate for the silent readers who may lack the education and analytical skills to realise that most of what you are spouting has no scientific basis and many of the practices you advocate are dangerous. Such as stopping abx midway through a cycle.
I think these readers are the only reason to bother arguing with you - as unfortunately you have made it quite clear that you are unwilling to listen to any rational arguments that do not suit your agenda.

I didn't come here to argue, just to share my views. There are plenty of people who are interested in hearing them and can benefit from them. Sorry if you don't like that.

ectomorph

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:34 pm

Wow this exploded

nursemomma

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:36 pm

amother wrote:

If u take care of it the proper way yes, are u?

I'm now beginning to wonder, did you come before g-d Rolling Eyes

amother

Natural

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:37 pm

good night everyone
wishing y'all the best of heaalth

eschaya

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:41 pm

amother wrote:

Wow the first smart women I've seen on here so far! Thanks for explaining it better than I

Although Tylenol and Motrin r not entirely risk free, it can cause damage to liver and kidney later in life, these things are not to be taken lightly and for every little thing ESP for having ur kids fall asleep faster Surprised

I just want to correct a misconception here... tylenol and motrin do NOT cause damage to liver and kidneys "later in life".
If you take less than 4 gm/day of tylenol (adult dose) you will not have liver problems. Not now, and not ever. But if you overdose on tylenol (whether intentionally or unintentionally) to the extent of >4g/day (especially with quite a bit more), there is significant chance of acute hepatic failure within 24-48 hours. This could result in death unless you could get a liver transplant. But giving yourself or a kid the appropriate dose of tylenol every 4-6 hours WILL NOT result in liver disease, not even later in life.
As far as NSAIDs, they are associated with an increased risk of bleeding and CV disease, and should be avoided by those who have renal disease. That being said, these warnings are meant for people who are popping these pills like candy, taking it multiple times a day. So motrin will not cause kidney damage if taken within reason by a healthy person, but someone who has chronic kidney disease should avoid NSAIDs when possible. Because of the CV risks I usually prefer tylenol, but if I feel miserable, the risks are really so small that I'm comfortable taking it within measure.
(edited to mention) NSAIDs have antiinflammatory properties, so if my pain if arising from an inflammatory source (as opposed to a tension headache for example), I will favor nsaids over tylenol.

This whole discussion is really about avoiding extremes and being measured. Taking meds at the slightest feeling of unwell is not smart. Especially medications like antibiotics which run the risk of increasing bacterial resistance. But avoiding these potentially lifesaving or at least symptom relieving drugs at all costs is also silly and a shame. If your kid is suffering, there is no reason in the world not to give them an appropriate antipyretic or analgesic.

As a poster earlier mentioned, there are risks and benefits to almost everything in this world. Do you know that 'natural" remedies such as ginger, garlic and ginko biloba increase the risk of bleeding? Or salt, fat, water, and oxygen... all things you can't live without, but could die from if you have too much.
I'm always concerned when I hear "always", "never" and other extremes in arguments, because it often implies loss of rationality.

Last edited by eschaya on Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:48 pm; edited 2 times in total

amother

Lemon

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:41 pm

amother wrote:

Hi Student of Microbiology
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

They're not 'my thoughts.' I worked in an actual lab. I grew bacteria, incubated them, and watched them grow. I watched them under a microscope. I know more about bacteria than you do. We don't 'think' things that then become real life. That seems to be your approach to medicine.

This conversation isn't about 'thoughts.' There are facts that exist outside of your brain, and people (especially parents) have a responsibility to learn those facts or at least trust the opinion of someone who learned those facts. I once thought my son broke my phone. I was wrong. Please be aware that a world with facts always existed outside of you and will continue to exist even after you die, and you will do well to learn those facts.

marina

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:43 pm

I dk if I'm the only one, but my kids have had all their vaccines. And I take them to the doctor whenever they need to and I give them Motrin when they have a fever and sometimes even cough medicine.

And my kids are smart and healthy. And kind people who think about others.

According to the logic I've seen here, it is obvious that vaccines and doctors and motrin made my kids smart and healthy and kind. Learn from my wisdom and you are welcome!

amother

Bronze

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:44 pm

EnnuiGalore wrote:

You can't be pro-science and anti-vaccine. But I'd have no problem with your rampant stupidity if it didn't have the capacity to affect your and other people's children. You don't take good care of your family at all - your only concern is your "natural" platform. I pity you and your children. I hope they grow up to be smarter than you clearly are. Now, please stop reproducing.

Ha. I sure can be pro science and anti vaccine.

I don't accept your assessment of my parenting, and keep your pity for yourself.

We are a beautiful Jewish family who happens to have a different approach to health care than most others. We take care of ourselves, eat well, and treat illness when necessary in ways that we see fit.

We don't need to do it your way.

nursemomma

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:46 pm

amother wrote:

I love hearing from people more educated than me- do you vaccinate?
I do.
If you don't want to publicize, if you don't mind, pls pm me.
Thanks

amother

Bronze

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:47 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

Why must you continue to hide behind Ima? Don't you have the courage of your convictions?

As if you'll know who I am if I use my screen name....

gold21

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:50 pm

Deleted

Last edited by gold21 on Fri, Nov 25 2016, 12:07 am; edited 1 time in total

MagentaYenta

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:52 pm

amother wrote:

As if you'll know who I am if I use my screen name....

Exactly so why hide?

marina

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:56 pm

Also, good news to those of you hiding in the bushes, afraid to speak your anti-vaccine thoughts for fear of the leftist PC police who have invaded our countries and are trying to poison our children! Trump is now our president elect! I am very excited to see his new plans for our children's safety!

Have no fear Bronze and Natural and the rest- soon you will be able to post freely with no fear of judgment! Trump stands with you!

Last edited by marina on Fri, Nov 25 2016, 12:00 am; edited 2 times in total

boysrus

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:56 pm

[deleted

Last edited by boysrus on Fri, Nov 25 2016, 12:14 am; edited 2 times in total

amother

Lemon

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:57 pm

amother wrote:

HA! Lady, the world would be a much nicer place for YOU if u learn the corruptness in the medical world, I talk from experience! Talk about who needs to learn a thing or two! Wonder who came first the dr or g-d gee, I need a genius to figure that one out, u know NOTHING about medicine, and who's living in fear? The one who's willing to stuff anything into their child for fair they get some third world illness (highly unlikely, and again, treatable if needed) without knowing the consequences in later years? Or one who lets the body naturally do what it's meant to do (with a watchful eye of course) and getting sick less often, yes it's true, my kids barely get sick bh,

-You picked a poster who knows a lot about medicine.
-We don't vaccinate out of fear. We vaccinate out of hope for a better world.
-No one 'stuffs their child with anything.' We trust our doctors and administer medicine carefully.
-Your grammar, hyperbole, logic, and manners are abhorrent.

amother

Lemon

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 11:58 pm

nursemomma wrote:

I love hearing from people more educated than me- do you vaccinate?
I do.
If you don't want to publicize, if you don't mind, pls pm me.
Thanks

Of course I vaccinate.

amother

Bronze

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 12:02 am

boysrus wrote:

I;m sorry, you are right. I hesitated before writing it. But I wish she would stop. I will delete that part of my post and could you please delete yours. thanks.

I disagree. A public insult warrants a public apology.
And I apologize for calling people druggies, although, in my defense, I explained that ppl were being nasty and that triggered my response.

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