Why do teachers think they work the hardest?

amother

Slateblue

Fri, Apr 07 2017, 1:44 am

amother wrote:

I am a teacher and I:
-Had work every day this week except tomorrow (MO high school).
-Spent this week scrambling to find babysitting for my kids who were off, and paid a lot of money for it.
-Have done Pesach preparations pretty much only after midnight and a couple hours on one Sunday (the rest of the time on recent Sundays I have been too busy taking care of my kids and/or grading papers and preparing my classes to have time for Pesach cleaning).

Not all teachers have the same vacations as their kids, and not all teachers get off a lot of time before Pesach.

Also, I agree with a previous poster who said that teachers are not the ones who make the schedule. We are at the mercy of the administration and/or the board. They have many considerations besides what is good for the teachers.

I am curious if people who work in all-frum environments with a frum boss and all frum workers get any extra time off before Pesach. Does anyone know? (Obviosly not including accountants.)

I have worked for two frum bosses. One gave me Erev pesach off and the other let me take it as an unpaid day off

shantelle

Fri, Apr 07 2017, 7:49 am

amother wrote:

I think first of all that the problem with schools having more days off because the teachers need to prep should not make resentment towards the teachers necessarily. It's the administration who ultimately decides that. Second of all the problem I have as someone who has taught and not taught over the years is that teachers are not treated with the same respect as say a lawyer or doctor. So although dr's and lawyers may also be putting extra hours in for their jobs somehow people often find it ok to treat their childs teacher with complete disregard and like the hired maid. And it's common place as far as I know among my teacher friends.

So while I certainly dont think I work harder than other people who put in longer hours and have a less convenient schedule than me, I do think that I am treated often like a piece of dirt on the parents shoe. While they more often than not are not treated that way.

Can you please give some examples of how teachers are treated like "the hired maid" or "dirt on the parents shoe" as opposed to how other professions are treated?

amother

Brunette

Fri, Apr 07 2017, 9:22 am

amother wrote:

Lol and most of us aren't doctors and lawyer and no one is kissing our tushes either. Work is hard that's life.

amother

Mauve

Fri, Apr 07 2017, 11:33 am

I work for a frum organization. We get off erev YT, never any earlier. We put in full time every day until then and we even have a rotation to come in over CHM. Someone needs to handle anything emergent that happens. Oh and I bring home work to do after hours regularly, the pay isn't amazing (without even acknowledging the extra hours I put in) and I don't get any kavod, respect etc. (trying to be purposely vague about the type of organization I work for).

When do we clean, prep and cook for YT? Every evening. Lots of late nights and Sundays. I go to bed routinely after midnight and then up early with the kids/work.
Why do teachers think they need the extra days off? Most of us take work home. Most of us work Sundays and after hours. Why are we, what feels like constantly, harassed to "appreciate our teachers"? I say thanks throughout the year, give MM, and try not to be a burden on them. But to be asked for collections for gifts for Channukah, pesach, Purim, end of year.... It feels to me that teachers need to be bribed to do their work. I get zero gifts or appreciation but am still motivated to go to work. Because I like work and my work's mission/goal.

JAWSCIENCE

Fri, Apr 07 2017, 12:10 pm

amother wrote:

I am sorry you are treated that way but as a Doctor let me assure you those same people that treat you that way are more than Happy to treat their doctor that way too. Some people are just rude and think everyone is meant to serve them. Especially in america where everything and every field has become a consumer industry where the customer feels they are always right. This is not unique to teaching

For What it's worth I think a lot of people think they work the hardest. Bottom line we all chose our professions and/or should either try to switch or affect change in our fields if we feel there are problems. Not try to lord it over others by saying we work harder. I struggle with that myself.

Why kids need off two weeks before Passover I do not know and the administration claiming it's because teachers need to make pessach should actually talk to the teachers. None of the ones I know say that this is something they must have because they work so hard. Many would rather just get paid on time/more around holiday time.

amother

Copper

Fri, Apr 07 2017, 12:17 pm

I apologize in advance if this was already said but I don't have time to read this whole thread. (Just taking a ten minute breakfast break!)
Do teachers think they have the hardest job? If that impression was given over on imamother it was probably the result of teachers feeling attacked for all this pre Pesach vacation, which the teachers do not plan anyway.
There are a certain number of school days per year. In my neighborhood the MO schools have a ten day mid winter break while the more yeshivish schools have three or four days. Some schools give off for Memorial Day others on erev Shavuos. But if you count the days they are probably a similar amount of off days. If you'd prefer your children to have off one large chunk in the middle of the winter instead of erev Pesach, choose a school that gives that type of vacation.
With regards to gifts for Chanukah, Purim whenever. Give if you want to give and don't give if you don't want to give. Your child will not be treated poorly if you do not send a nice check or gift to the teacher on Chanukah.
I personally like to thank my kids' teachers as much as I can because they spend HOURS EVERY DAY teaching them, loving them and caring for them. When one of my kids had an asthma scare and my doctor spent a lot of time with us and got us through it, we did give him a gift. Everyone works hard. Work is, well, WORK!
This is the way schools run. They have these vacation days built into the calendar. If you'd like that type of work schedule, apply for a job in a school. If you'd like to change the way schools are set up then start your own school and run it the way you'd like. Or join the board of your child's school and you'll have a say in things like planning the school calendar.
Teachers work hard like everyone else. They do not have the hardest job but the school calendar happens to be a perk of their job.
And if my post is ttly irrelevant to this thread I do apologize.
Now back to work!

octopus

Fri, Apr 07 2017, 12:28 pm

I don't think teaching is the hardest profession. I do think teachers, especially the more right wing yeshivas, are grossly underpaid. Also, while other professions may deal with rude customers, you are dealing with ppl's children. It's a lot more personal than a business dealing. Parents are not always rational about their kids, and can get highly emotional. And that's understandable. We are talking about ppl's kids.

amother

Pearl

Fri, Apr 07 2017, 2:17 pm

amother wrote:

Why are we, what feels like constantly, harassed to "appreciate our teachers"? I say thanks throughout the year, give MM, and try not to be a burden on them. But to be asked for collections for gifts for Channukah, pesach, Purim, end of year.... It feels to me that teachers need to be bribed to do their work. I get zero gifts or appreciation but am still motivated to go to work. Because I like work and my work's mission/goal.

I believe that schools believe that these "gifts" are part of the teachers' total compensation packages, and a means of providing teachers with tax-free income. If a teacher has 30 students, and gets $50 from each of them on those occasions, that's $1500 that they're probably not reporting on taxes.

amother

Tan

Fri, Apr 07 2017, 2:31 pm

I always thought that Pesach vacation was just a replacement for Spring Break. Public schools, non Jewish private schools and colleges have 2 weeks off for Spring Break. Where do people get the notion that the purpose of the days off was specifically for the teachers?

Comparing doctors and lawyers to teachers makes no sense to me. Doctors and lawyers make at least 4x the salary as a teacher. Teachers are dealing with your children on a daily basis for the majority of each day. I see my doctor probably twice per year for 20 minutes. It's common courtesy to demonstrate your appreciation a measly 2x per year. It won't kill you to say thank you.

octopus

Fri, Apr 07 2017, 2:35 pm

amother wrote:

What planet do you come from that parents are doling out $50 per teacher???? It's more like $5 at chanuka time. That's it. They collect $20/$25 . There are usually two teachers and two assistants. And office staff takes a cut. So it's probably less than five a teacher. Stop making cheshbonos for ppl. It's just gross.

amother

Brunette

Fri, Apr 07 2017, 2:35 pm

amother wrote:

College is different. Spring break is one week for regular elementary and high schools.

amother

Brunette

Fri, Apr 07 2017, 2:36 pm

octopus wrote:

Read imamother posts. Certainly rebbes seem to get 50 or more per chag.

amother

Pearl

Fri, Apr 07 2017, 3:23 pm

octopus wrote:

Well, aren't you just lovely.

I read here. People are asked to give $10 to $20 per teacher at Chanukah. And to tip at Purim. And end of year. So I come from Planet Earth and Planet Jew. Where do you come from? Planet Attack People?

amother

Pearl

Fri, Apr 07 2017, 3:32 pm

amother wrote:

Comparing doctors and lawyers to teachers makes no sense to me. Doctors and lawyers make at least 4x the salary as a teacher. Teachers are dealing with your children on a daily basis for the majority of each day. I see my doctor probably twice per year for 20 minutes. It's common courtesy to demonstrate your appreciation a measly 2x per year. It won't kill you to say thank you.

I say thanks when I see my kids' teachers professionally. If I run into them when they're off, I usually don't bring up their jobs; I assume they don't want to discuss it on their free time.

But lets leave aside poorly paid yeshiva teachers.

A NYC public school teacher with 5 years of experience makes about $70,000 a year, plus benefits. About the same as small-firm attorneys, and more than most other college grads.

If you don't have a degree, OTOH, the average high school graduate makes $30,000 a year. And no, you cannot and should not compare that person to a person with a graduate degree. (How on earth is anyone allowed to teach without a college degree?)

amother

Tan

Fri, Apr 07 2017, 5:49 pm

amother wrote:

I read that in NYC , attorney's are making a starting salary of $160,000 a year in large firms. Public school Teachers on average make a starting salary of about $45,000-$50,000 a year. They're completely different jobs with different hours and qualifications and I agree shouldn't be compared at all.

amother

Hotpink

Fri, Apr 07 2017, 6:04 pm

amother wrote:

Ridiculous comparison. Lawyers in large firms often work 50-90 hour work weeks, versus teachers... And how many attorneys in NYC land jobs with the big firms? Maybe the top 5% from the Ivy League colleges. The rest are in small firms making $60,000 - $90,000, in which case public school teachers actually make more than them when you break down the hours...

octopus

Fri, Apr 07 2017, 6:52 pm

amother wrote:

Go back and reread. I wrote that parents are asked to give 20/25 at chanukah but that doesn't translate directly to one teacher. That's for ALL the teachers your child has (not talking rebbie here). So in my kids' school that's a hebrew and english teacher and an am and pm assistant. Plus the office workers take a cut. Need I repeat myself again? You are mixing apples and oranges when it comes to purim. Many ppl have the custom of giving REBBEIM purim time. Most ppl don't give end of year gifts to teachers unless that particular teacher did an absolutely outstanding job. For most parents it's once a year at chanukah time and if you follow the breakdown I gave you above it translates to approx $4/$5 a student to a teacher, chanukah time.

octopus

Fri, Apr 07 2017, 6:55 pm

amother wrote:

And you're just as lovely yourself. Rolling Eyes

. I'm not sure who made you the authority if you only know info based on just reading on imamother. (it's one thing to say for ex. in my kid's school we do xyz...)